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What is it that makes a machine CE?

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  • What is it that makes a machine CE?

    Hey guys my name is Dave, I'm new to the forum. I recently bought a Syncrowave 250 while on holidays in the States, only to get it home and find I can't use it as it doesn't comply with Australian Standards. Anyway I bought another one off of ebay that is CE and does comply, but what is it that makes it comply? Cause the one I got in the States is far better than the one I got from here. I wanted to take whatever it is that makes it CE and put it in the better one. I pulled the the top off and had a look in both but couldn't see anything obvious. So please help..

  • #2
    European standards, so machines built in the states but sold off shore
    Usually built for different input powers

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    • #3
      Open circuit voltage

      I seem to recall the the open circuit voltage can be an issue for CE, that the maximum open circuit voltage (OCV) is lower than in the USA. I think that the Maxstars, for example, have OCV as a programmable feature, so they can meet the CE standards, while leaving the higher OCV that is customary in the USA.

      I don't think that CE approval is something that you can retrofit, it is something designed in from the factory.

      Not sure what is preventing you from using the non-CE welder. In the USA, nobody is policing what you plug in on your own property. Importing equipment that is not approved could be an issue, however.

      I tend to look at CE as a stamp of approval, similar to the Underwriter's Laboratories (UL) stamp. Kind of a bureaucratic requirement. Some equipment sold in the USA has the CE stamp and UL stamp, presumably so they can build one model and sell it worldwide.

      Richard

      Richard
      Syncrowave 200, Millermatic 211, Victor torch, Propane forge....

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      • #4
        Did someone specifically say that it is illegal to install this machine?

        I was just wondering if you ran into problems when the friendly neighborhood electrician went to hook it up? I suppose there are set standards that have to be followed to comply with electrical code. For what its worth if you can supply the correct primary power single/three phase and correct frequency id say have at it. I have seen lots of machines that didnt have CSA approval hooked up here in Canada and nobody said a word. I wonder if the miller tech guys could ring in for you in regards to this. I know some of the lincoln electric inverters can be very easily hooked up to any power supply almost anywhere in the world. Maybe you could trade the tins on the machines or get a CE sticker to install on your better machine provided every thing else works and was compatable.
        I have a welding addiction

        ...the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask

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        • #5
          When you state "can't use it" are you saying that you are not allowed or that it doesn't run on yer Power?

          They do make 60hz only, 50/60hz and a 50 hz only model

          Just curious.. if not allowed, then whom governs the use of equipment at home?
          Ed Conley
          http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
            When you state "can't use it" are you saying that you are not allowed or that it doesn't run on yer Power?

            They do make 60hz only, 50/60hz and a 50 hz only model

            Just curious.. if not allowed, then whom governs the use of equipment at home?
            CE= Conelly ,ED LOL HAHhahah

            NEMA =National Electrical Manufacturers association?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
              When you state "can't use it" are you saying that you are not allowed or that it doesn't run on yer Power?

              They do make 60hz only, 50/60hz and a 50 hz only model

              Just curious.. if not allowed, then whom governs the use of equipment at home?
              Yeah I actually phoned a welding supply shop that advertised Miller products for sale, he was Indian, and when I told him how I'd got the machine, and said I needed some cable and plug for the power supply, he basically nearly had a fit, he told me if I pull the back off it Miller will come over and give me a huge fine. Then I phoned another Miller dealer and he said that it didn't comply with Australian Standards and would cause problems with some Tele communications, and could cause someone with a pace maker to possibly die. I don't know how true that is. Oh and he said not to use it! I talked to another guy and he said just hook it up and use it and if anyone comes out about it just say you didn't know it was a problem. Man if I had known what a friggen hassel it was I wouldn't have bought them! I should have taken the four and a half grand and bought something new, which would have been a shame cause I always wanted to own a decent Miller welder. Also most of the welders that are sold are in the 50 to 60 hertz range, I'm not sure who polices that sort of thing, I would imagine it would be the communication authority maybe. Thanks for all the replys.
              Last edited by reidy01; 06-01-2011, 05:36 AM.

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              • #8
                Your first shop is being spiteful for your not having purchased through them. Miller isn't going to come knocking at your door to present you with a bill for a huge fine. That isn't a point of interest to Miller in the least bit unless you were into the illegal mass importation and sale of multiple Miller units...and you aren't. The other dealer is being only slightly more reasonable. There is the possibility of causing interference and 'maybe' on a bad day some possible pacemaker problems if the unit and electrical supply aren't grounded correctly. Do a search here with the 'Search' feature and there should be more than enough information available to easily negate any problem there.

                Your only two problems 'might' be electrical. One would be how your 230-240v current is provided. I'm not conversant with Aussie electrical, but if you have two 110-120v hots and a ground available you should be okay. The second may be a more serious factor if you are running 50 hertz electrical supply if the unit isn't set up to run from that mode. Check the manual or the tag attached to the machine for that information. If the machine is capable of running with your power supply, go grab a length of cord and a plug and make your own and bypass the dealer's more expensive and no more capable option.
                Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
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                • #9
                  Aussie electrical distribution

                  I did a little research and found that Australia's standard electrical power is 240 volts at 50 HZ. If you have a machine manufactured for use in the USA it is designed for use on 60 HZ. As mentioned earlier by another forum member, if the machine was not designed for 50/60 HZ it will not work properly, even though the voltage is within specified parameters.

                  Cruizer will probably have a more detailed insight into the specifics of the Miller machines but, basically, any electronics package in the welder designed to synch up with a 60 HZ frequency will be out-of-spec trying to work at 50 HZ.

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                  • #10
                    some reading on CE

                    Check on the CE mark on Wikipedia with the following link:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark
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                    • #11
                      Just looked a the service manual. Your welder should work just fine on 50 cycle power. Use the contact us tab at the top of the page and ask Miller if your welder is a CE rated welder. Give then the serial and stock numbers. They had made a CE units since at least 1988. worst case is you will need to find an Electrician who can do a CE inspection and issue a CE certificate for you. Might be pricey.
                      When you contact miller ask them what the difference is and what makes it a CE unit.
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                      • #12
                        Thanks guys I appreciate your replies and suggestions, I was going to hook it up three phase, which is 415 volt I think 40 amp. Also I did notice when I had the top off that the cooler pump had a CE sticker on it, but that might be just the pump.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by reidy01 View Post
                          Thanks guys I appreciate your replies and suggestions, I was going to hook it up three phase, which is 415 volt I think 40 amp. Also I did notice when I had the top off that the cooler pump had a CE sticker on it, but that might be just the pump.

                          I've never seen a 3-phase Syncrowave so make sure before you hook it up. I always thought they were all single phase.
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                          • #14
                            CE power sources are made with different transformer coils so a 230/460/575 north American machine is unlikely going to work on 380/400/415. For different countries the panels may be in a different language, or different symbols, or completely different machines for that market.

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                            • #15
                              Cruizer is right

                              I also took a look at the Synchrowave 250 manual and call attention to the following items:

                              1) The machine is intended for single phase power sources and will not work on three phase.

                              2) If you look at Section 3-10 ELECTRICAL SERVICE GUIDE, you will notice that there are two completely separate data tables in this section. The first table is for 60 HZ machines and has American utilization voltage values for circuit calculations.

                              The second table is for 50HZ machines and has European utilization voltage values.

                              Obviously, the American machines and CE rated machines are designed to operate on completely different power distribution systems (voltage, frequency).

                              3) If you look at Section 3-11, which shows the different jumper links, there is a note in that section (Note 1).

                              This noter advises the user to "Check Label inside your unit-only one label is on unit"

                              Also, "Only make connections for voltages shown on the label inside your unit. Do not make connections for any other voltages"

                              This states that each machine is designed to be used for a specific voltage range. You cannot re-link a U.S. rated machine to work on CE rated voltage sources.

                              I would strongly advise you to contact Miller directly and let them know EXACTLY what your situation is ( machine serial # and your voltage source data) before you proceed with wiring your machine. You may not be happy with the results otherwise.

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