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  • Sharpened stick electrode?

    Hi Guys,
    OK, so I'm Just think out loud here...

    I have read that you sometimes sharpen the wire to a point to get the puddle started with some of the wire feed methods... Can I do the same thing for a stick weld?

    I'm having trouble with a little bit of blowthrough on thin metal. I'm repairing an rusted out automotive saddle, and while I've cut it back as far as possible to get to some clean metal, there are still a few places that are a little weak, so I need to get the amps down a touch. Only trouble is I can't get it to arc if I turn it down, it just sticks like glue.

    So I'm thinking if I sharpen a bit of a point on the stick it will be easier to start without sticking, and then I would be able to run a bead at a lower amperage and not blow through the material so much.

    Has anybody ever try this?
    Got any other tricks up thier sleeve?

    I'm using a 115V ac only stick welder with 1/16" 6013, and this is all that I have.
    (Please save the pokes and jabs about the equipment for another time... I'ts all I have right now, and in 1/16", 6013 seems to be the only rod available.)

    Thanks,
    Hobbynut
    Last edited by hobbynut; 03-31-2011, 09:21 AM. Reason: My Bad, incorrect rod #, correct rod is 6013, not 6011

  • #2
    Try something elese...

    hobbynut,

    Sharpening a stick electrode to cut down on required amperage won't work. I have a couple of ideas I have used that you may want to try. If possible strike your arc and run down hill with a fast travel speed. a short side to side weave may help you avoid burn through as well. Also a 6013 rod is usually readily available in 1/16" electrodes. The 6013 does not dig like a 6011 and will better suit your purpose if available. A small diameter 7014 electrode is also an option.You may want to use a copper or brass backing plate to draw some heat away from your work piece.


    By the way: 6011 electrodes are extremely easy to start, restart, and maintain an arc. If a 6011 is sticking, then you are really running cold. If you can get the arc to start this cold, then push the rod in tight for a very short arc gap. This will help keep the arc burning. I hope this helps.
    Good Luck

    HAWK
    Last edited by HAWK; 03-31-2011, 08:53 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Opps! wrong rod #...

      Sorry Hawk,
      My Mistake... I always get the rod #'s mixed up.
      I am using 6013 rod. I have it in 1/16" and 5/64", which are the smallest size I could find. I have corrected my post above.

      The smallest 6011 rod I was able to find was 3/32".

      I like the backup plate idea to draw out some of the heat. I'll give that a shot tonight.
      Thanks.

      HMMM.... I wonder what would happen if I hook up two half dead car batteries in series with a 100 amp engine boost charger... Do a little 24V DC- instead? LOL

      Comment


      • #4
        try rhis.

        hobbynut,

        Lay a few 6013 x 1/16" rods on an oven pan and heat them in the house oven at 250 degrees f for about 40 minutes. They will strike much easier at smaller amperages. It may or may not be the answer for your project. I think the down hill with a lateral weave is probably your best bet. I have welded rusted 1/16" mild steel without problem using 5/64" 6013. I hope you can make good progress as well.

        Good Luck

        HAWK

        Comment


        • #5
          Set your machine for the normal amperage for the size rod you're using, knock the flux off another rod & use as a filler like you were tig welding.
          Miller Trailblazer's ( 2 )...MillerBobcat 250...Millermatic 251's ( 2 )...Miller Syncrowave 200...Miller Syncrowave 180SD...Miller 12VS Suitcases ( 2 )... Hobart Hefty CC/CV Suitcases ( 2 )...Miller 30A Spool Guns ( 2 )...Miller WC 15A Control boxes ( 2 )...Thermo Dynamics Cutmaster 50 Plasma Cutters ( 2 )...Thermo Arc Hi Freq Units ( 2 )...Smith / Victor O/A Sets...DeWalt Power Tools...Craftsman / Snap On Hand Tools... Two Dodge Mobile Rigs

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          • #6
            Good thought...

            Old Skool,

            Good suggestion. I thought about throwing this idea out for hobbynut, but did not want to add confusion. The more I think about it it seems like a good idea now. It will draw some heat and add filler to the thinner material too. A tofer1 (two for one ) special.

            Comment


            • #7
              LOL with Ol Skool,

              Can kinda tell who the old guys are.

              Bet you won't find that trick in many SMAW manuals.

              There's no education that matches "The School of Hard Knocks".
              Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
              Dynasty 200 DX
              Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
              Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
              Hobart HH187
              Dialarc 250 AC/DC
              Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
              Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
              PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
              Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
              Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
              More grinders than hands

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HAWK View Post
                hobbynut,

                Lay a few 6013 x 1/16" rods on an oven pan and heat them in the house oven at 250 degrees f for about 40 minutes. They will strike much easier at smaller amperages. It may or may not be the answer for your project. I think the down hill with a lateral weave is probably your best bet. I have welded rusted 1/16" mild steel without problem using 5/64" 6013. I hope you can make good progress as well.

                Good Luck

                HAWK
                I'm gonna have to wait until wifey's not around for that one.
                Don't think she'll go for baking rod with dinner...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Doing it the hard way!

                  Originally posted by Old Skool View Post
                  Set your machine for the normal amperage for the size rod you're using, knock the flux off another rod & use as a filler like you were tig welding.
                  Originally posted by HAWK View Post
                  Old Skool,

                  Good suggestion. I thought about throwing this idea out for hobbynut, but did not want to add confusion. The more I think about it it seems like a good idea now. It will draw some heat and add filler to the thinner material too. A tofer1 (two for one ) special.
                  Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
                  LOL with Ol Skool,

                  Can kinda tell who the old guys are.

                  Bet you won't find that trick in many SMAW manuals.

                  There's no education that matches "The School of Hard Knocks".
                  Alot of people have made fun of my little machine and the fact that I want to learn to weld using this little toy.
                  My thinking is that if I can learn to do it the hard way, all the better for me.
                  I'll try the flux thing tonight, and combined with Hawks' heat sink I'm sure I'll get the holes filled in.... (gotta wait until the weekend to sneak in the baked rods)
                  Your suggestions make sense to me.

                  Technology in the newer machines and the newer techniques are great, especially if your trying to make your living at it and productivity = $$$'s...
                  But for me learning the old school ways first; the way it was done before mig and tig were even around - makes sense to me.

                  I already have my next machine picked out!
                  There's an old ideal arc 250 tombstone at work that hasn't been touched in probably ten years, and I'm sure the boss will just give it to me.
                  It's gotta be at least 30 yrs old, maybe even 40. It looked old when I started there 20 yrs ago...
                  The window to the laundry room and the dryer plug are only twenty feet away from the garage, so I won't need to do any re-wiring. I already have about 50 feet of monstercable....(Gotta love garage sales)

                  Look out! ac/dc+/& dc-....

                  Hobbynut
                  Last edited by hobbynut; 03-31-2011, 06:10 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ohhhh, the "chinese TIG welding method" works great for thin stuff and the monster gaps........LOL

                    Just had to put my thoughts on it in here. Had an "old school" guy teach me that trick years ago and it's still the easiest way sometimes.
                    Chris

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      lmao!!! i carry 1/8 er70s-2 tig filler in the truck so i dont have to waste tons of time "kicking" the flux.....
                      welder_one

                      nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
                      www.sicfabrications.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think you doing yourself more harm to your learning then good by using that little machine. Learning to stick weld is learning to weld the hard way all into itself and adding the difficulty of an inadequet machine is learning the wrong way. If you are able to learn to weld with that little machine it would be great but you'll have to relearn how to weld with a bigger machine when you get it. I would see about speeding up the process of getting the Ideal Arc that way you can see the difference and perhaps learn to weld quicker.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Correct me if I am wrong but your little machine is AC.
                          AC is hard/impossible to start at low amperage.
                          AC is not suited to working with thin metal.

                          Using what ya brung is not gonna work in this case.
                          Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nitesky View Post
                            Correct me if I am wrong but your little machine is AC.
                            AC is hard/impossible to start at low amperage.
                            AC is not suited to working with thin metal.

                            Using what ya brung is not gonna work in this case.
                            Very good points Nitesky. (When stick welding).

                            Good Luck

                            HAWK

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                            • #15
                              I am all for making do but the usual suggestion is to give those units to someone you really don't care for with a big smile.

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