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Pulsed TIG tips or "tricks"? Anyone?

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  • Pulsed TIG tips or "tricks"? Anyone?

    I have never tried pulsed TIG before and I suppose it is time to try it. I am going to practice on some 18 ga plain steel 1 5/8" exhaust tubing and am going to do some reading on the technique/setup/etc, but was wondering if anyone in this group had any tips or "tricks" to make it better or easier and maybe shorten the learning curve. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks.
    Don J
    Reno, NV

    Never pick a fight with an old guy. Old guys are too smart to fight and get hurt. They'll just kill you and get it over with.

  • #2
    Pulse

    What machine?

    The higher the pulsing, the better the overall control to an extent. For example, I like 385 pps with my dynasty, for SS 1/16 wall pipe vs 60 pps with the maxstar. But I have to do with what I can, with what I have. Also depends on joint position.

    The key is pulsing is a heat assistant, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk.

    Comment


    • #3
      A couple of different ways to use it that I found convenient, though I don't use pulse too often. First, for regulating the average power input by playing with the high-side on time versus the frequency, and I found it handy when building thin edges using a relatively low frequency (< 2 hz) and finding the right duty cycle to keep the edge from disappearing. This especially helps if you have a machine that doesn't go low in current. My present welder goes down to 5 amps, so I don't use pulse as often as with my last machine. Just some ideas.

      Comment


      • #4
        Pulsed TIG

        I suggest that you start with the following, given that you are welding thinner material.

        1 pulse per second (I usually use 1.2 pulses per second)
        50% time high, 50% time low
        Low current 50% of high current.

        I weld copper about 1mm (0.040 inch) thick, so like aluminum, pulse is very useful to get full penetration without burn through. Since you are working in steel, pulse is probably not as useful as it would be when welding aluminum or copper.

        If you increase the percentage of time high, or the fraction of the low current vs. high current, that has the same effect as increasing the overall current, and vice-versa. The key is the average current, which is Peak Current * percentage of time high + (Low current * percentage of time low). To say it another way, average current is the overall (peak) current setting times (1 - fraction of low current * fraction of time low) Example calculation: Let's say that the peak current is set at 100 amps, while the low current percentage is 50%, and the low current time is 50%. The average is then (100 amps times .5 + 50 amps time .5)/2, or 50 amps * .75 = 75 amps. Note, however, that the machine probably gives the time as a percentage of time high, not a percentage of time low, but that is an easy conversion, 25% high time is .75 fraction of time low.

        Let me try to explain this a different way. Lets say the peak current is 100 amps, and that is on 50% of the time. That is an average current of 50 amps. But then we have to add in the low current, which is 50 amps, also on 50% of the time, which is an average of 25 amps. 50 + 25 = 75 amps average current.

        Take a more complicated example: 100 amps, 65% high, low current is 50% of peak. Low current is therefore 50 amps, 35% of the time. so average current is 100*.65 + 50*.35 = 82 amps

        For experimentation purposes, you might try 65% and 35% settings vs. 50% settings, just remember that you will need to adjust the overall current to compensate for the percentage change. I think this is an area that some people don't think through very carefully, that if you change any pulse parameter you change the average current, so you need to compensate by changing the overall or peak current.

        I may go out in the shop today and play with some of the numbers on copper, which is not very forgiving of incorrect settings.

        By the way, on my Syncrowave 200, the foot pedal controls the peak current, but does not affect the low current. So if I have the machine set at 100 amps, 50% and 50%, and floor the pedal, I get 50% of time at 100 amps, and 50% of time at 50 amps. But if I push the pedal down about 3/4 of the way, I get 50% time at 75 amps, and 50% time at 50 amps. If you push the pedal down less than half way, you get no pulsing effect at all.

        No, I don't claim to be an expert on pulsing, but I do use pulse, and I understand how to calculate average heat input.

        Richard
        Last edited by raferguson; 03-29-2011, 11:47 AM. Reason: Improved formulas and calculations
        Syncrowave 200, Millermatic 211, Victor torch, Propane forge....

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with the question, "What machine".

          Pulsing can lower the overall heat input but high speed pulsing can also be used to agitate the puddle.

          PS. Your signature would indicate "No tig".

          If you have not done much tig welding, there are a lot more things to worry about before you get into pulsing. Too many people try to use it as a crutch to compensate for poor basic technique.
          Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
          Dynasty 200 DX
          Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
          Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
          Hobart HH187
          Dialarc 250 AC/DC
          Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
          Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
          PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
          Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
          Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
          More grinders than hands

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
            I agree with the question, "What machine".

            PS. Your signature would indicate "No tig".

            If you have not done much tig welding, there are a lot more things to worry about before you get into pulsing. Too many people try to use it as a crutch to compensate for poor basic technique.
            Wow..you got that I am "worried" about pulse from my signature? AMAZING! My signature "indicates" no TIG because I don't have one at the moment as I have so many available to me. BUT, when you talk about "too many people", etc...I say that when one is curious about something it is time to learn about it. I DO NOT need to be told, even subtly (or not), that it isn't something to mess with. ANYTHING that a person doesn't know something about is worth trying, reading about, and asking about. That is called "learning" and, while that may scare some people for whatever reason, it never hurts to know more about whatever a person may want to try.

            As to the "What machine" question, I have access to about 8 different models that have pulse capability, so my questions and cutiosities are, at the moment, pretty generic but they could lead me to a particular machine that I might prefer when it comes time to acquire one. I'd rather learn NOW, before buying a machine, so I have some idea what works for me. A lot of people have machines that they wish they had not bought and others have macines that they don't completely understand because they never bothered to learn about that stuff. OR some mis-informed or ignorant person told them to not "worry" about it when they asked.......

            PS...I am NOT "worried" about pulse..there are a lot more serious things in the world to "worry" about. Trouble is, most of those are things I CAN NOT do a thing to change, but I CAN learn about new things.

            By the way, I do thank those of you that have made POSITVE suggestions , described experiences and offered ideas.
            Last edited by dondlhmn; 03-29-2011, 01:02 PM.
            Don J
            Reno, NV

            Never pick a fight with an old guy. Old guys are too smart to fight and get hurt. They'll just kill you and get it over with.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Don,

              I thought SundownIII commented with all possible restraint.

              I do agree that pulsing flares the puddle, reduces heat input, and penetration.

              I also agree that high speed pulsing agitates the puddle.

              I really only use high speed anymore for thin metals. My older machines with limited pulse values like 100 pps and less were useless frankly annoying for me and I never bothered with it.

              So what are the pulse values available to you?

              Terry
              Nothing welded, Nothing gained

              Miller Dynasty700DX
              3 ea. Miller Dynasty350DX
              Miller Dynasty200DX
              ThermalArc 400 GTSW
              MillerMatic350P
              MillerMatic200 with spoolgun
              MKCobraMig260
              Lincoln SP-170T
              Linde UCC305 (sold 2011)
              Hypertherm 1250
              Hypertherm 800
              PlasmaCam CNC cutter
              Fadal Toolroom CNC Mill
              SiberHegner CNC Mill
              2 ea. Bridgeport
              LeBlond 15" Lathe
              Haberle 18" Cold Saw
              Doringer 14" Cold Saw
              6 foot x 12 foot Mojave granite

              Comment


              • #8
                OK Don,

                If you're so freaking smart and know so much about tig and pulsing then you'd understand that "what machine" makes a huge difference.

                The transformer machines (Miller Syncrowaves for instance) only pulse from .01 to 10PPS. The inverter machines will pulse much faster. The Dynasty 200 DX has a range of .01-500 PPS (both AC and DC), whereas the Dynasty 350 has a pulse range of .01-5000 PPS in DC and .01-500 PPS in AC.

                BIG difference in how pulsing can be used between the inverters and the transformers.

                Also, in going back and reading your posts (which reveals your tig background) YOU ARE in the group who should be paying more attention to learning the basics of tig rather than worrying about pulsing.
                Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                Dynasty 200 DX
                Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                Hobart HH187
                Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                More grinders than hands

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
                  OK Don,

                  If you're so freaking smart and know so much about tig and pulsing then you'd understand that "what machine" makes a huge difference.
                  Look, butthead, I never said I was so "freaking" smart (that is YOUR assumption, though I am most likely light years ahead of you in the "smart" department, as are most all HUMANS). I was ASKING QUESTIONS TO FIND information I don't know. I NEVER even pretended to know A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G about pulse TIG, and that is why I am trying to learn about it. If you could possibly understand that I want to learn about this stuff so I don't make the wrong decision when I DO buy a machine to do TIG, you wouldn't be acting like an idiot. AS I SAID, I want to learn more about ths so I can make a resaoned decision when I do buy a machine. If you read what I said, you'd NOT be making such an *** of yourself.

                  Why don't you go play on craigslist or something? There, they pretty much expect people to be total idiots, so you will be accepted as "normal" there, even with your LIMITED INTELLIGENCE and stupid attitude.
                  Don J
                  Reno, NV

                  Never pick a fight with an old guy. Old guys are too smart to fight and get hurt. They'll just kill you and get it over with.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hmmmmm. You are pi$$ing off one of THE guys who has vast TIG knowledge on this forum. You asked for TIPS and TRICKS. He offered, though it wasn't what you wanted to hear & now you are flaming him. We see lots of that on this forum. You say you have a variety of machines at work to play with. Why don't you do just that & see what you like & what you don't.

                    Maybe you need to learn how to walk before you learn how to run?
                    Last edited by jasonspoon; 03-29-2011, 10:51 PM.
                    "When the wise old rooster crows, the smart young rooster listens."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dondlhmn View Post
                      Look, butthead, I never said I was so "freaking" smart (that is YOUR assumption, though I am most likely light years ahead of you in the "smart" department, as are most all HUMANS). I was ASKING QUESTIONS TO FIND information I don't know. I NEVER even pretended to know A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G about pulse TIG, and that is why I am trying to learn about it. If you could possibly understand that I want to learn about this stuff so I don't make the wrong decision when I DO buy a machine to do TIG, you wouldn't be acting like an idiot. AS I SAID, I want to learn more about ths so I can make a resaoned decision when I do buy a machine. If you read what I said, you'd NOT be making such an *** of yourself.

                      Why don't you go play on craigslist or something? There, they pretty much expect people to be total idiots, so you will be accepted as "normal" there, even with your LIMITED INTELLIGENCE and stupid attitude.
                      Well, that was tactful...
                      :~ATTITUDE MAKES THE DIFFERENCE!!!:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by crabber View Post
                        Well, that was tactful...
                        True......Yeah, I know it wasn't very tactful, but I tend to reflect bad attitudes back at the person from whom I get them. Apparently the simple concepts of craving knowledge for the sake of knowledge and "learning through asking questions", reading and watching others are foreign and incomprehensible to some people. I guess I shouldn't let that bother me, huh?

                        My apologies to everyone on the list (with one execption) for inflicting upon all the members my reactions to ignorance and poor attitude displayed by one individual that thinks no one should think in any other way than the way he does. I tend to not want to have others tell me WHAT to think. I belive that, as long as an individual injures no one else, that person may think or believe whatever he wishes.

                        Again, I still want to ask questions and to learn and if that bothers some people, so be it.
                        Don J
                        Reno, NV

                        Never pick a fight with an old guy. Old guys are too smart to fight and get hurt. They'll just kill you and get it over with.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          F or sundown111

                          Hey friend,

                          I used to wonder why so many good welders got "fed-up" and quit helping the newer guys-even left here for "Slag-pit" and other forums. Well, I don't wonder anymore. You know the older guys like you, me, Paul Seaman, Andy, Kevin Bentz (left long ago), have the knowledge/skill/experience/talent to do our jobs well. At one point I did not mind passing it own. I guess we should just go our way and let 'em get it on their own. I say ******** em for the most part.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HAWK View Post
                            Hey friend,

                            I used to wonder why so many good welders got "fed-up" and quit helping the newer guys-even left here for "Slag-pit" and other forums. Well, I don't wonder anymore. You know the older guys like you, me, Paul Seaman, Andy, Kevin Bentz (left long ago), have the knowledge/skill/experience/talent to do our jobs well. At one point I did not mind passing it own. I guess we should just go our way and let 'em get it on their own. I say ******** em for the most part.
                            Yep, you are right. At my age (and I am NOT a puppy anymore! GEEZ..How did I get to be so old all of a sudden??? How could I POSSIBLY have a kid that is 40??) I don't know you or even any of the guys you mentioned, but I don't take BS easily and, as I said, don't take kindly to being told what, when or how to think or believe. In my lifelong trade I enjoyed helping new guys along, but if they had some kind of an attitude problem I was NOT impressed in any positive way and wouldn't go out of my way to help such a person. Everyone has to start somewhere learning, gathering knowledge and experience and most everyone I know that is really good at what they do had the help of a "mentor" and/or guys with more experience. It is sad when one of the folks that has knowledge and experience in some specialized field takes themselves out of the picture and refuses to help newbies because they are so set in their ways that when some other person doesn't think the same way they do (politics, religion, general life philosophies, etc.) comes along, they just can't deal with it.

                            And yes, I, too get "fed up" with people with some kind of attitude problem just because they think (or thought) that whatever knowledge they have in some field also entitles them to attempt to dictate to others what they should do, think, believe, etc.

                            I also believe in ******** 'em for the most part and have taken a lesson from my dogs..."If you can't eat it or screw it, piss on it!"
                            Don J
                            Reno, NV

                            Never pick a fight with an old guy. Old guys are too smart to fight and get hurt. They'll just kill you and get it over with.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hawk,

                              Man, that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

                              This guy's calling ME the idiot.

                              At least I have a couple tig machines and know how to tig weld. Also know where the pulse capability can be used to my benefit.

                              Funny thing is, when I got my first tig welder with pulse capability (tig welded for 40 years without it) the first thing I did was sit down and read a couple books and articles on pulsing. Then I sat down and started trying different settings til I found what worked best for me. If the OP had just done a little homework and maybe used the search feature, he'd understand that tig pulsing is a "very broad" subject that doesn't lend itself to "short and sweet tips and tricks". In fact, if he'd simply read Miller's Tig Handbook (page 18), he'd already have the basic advantages of pulsing outlined. But, not only is he pretty thickheaded but he's lazy to boot.

                              I did get a good laugh when he called me an idiot. Maybe I should draw him into an intellectual debate. Really wouldn't be fair though, he'd be like the guy who brought a knife to a gunfight. Actually, if he's really looking for an idiot, he needs to look no further than his bathroom mirror.
                              Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                              Dynasty 200 DX
                              Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                              Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                              Hobart HH187
                              Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                              Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                              Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                              PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                              Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                              Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                              More grinders than hands

                              Comment

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