Miller Schwartz or Engineers!!! Miller MIG 211 or Wait???

[Kamikaze]

Hello Miller Schwartz!!!! Or any Miller Engineers...

I've been planning a build up of another portable system but this time for myself and not the shop. I have been considering buying another Miller 211 with a spool gun to join up with my Diversion 180 and 375 Xtreme. This will be on a custom cart to hold everything together and be portable when we only have 115V power but most of the time will be running 220V.

Here's the thing. Every time I pull the plug and buy a new Miller product, it seems like they are reinventing a product with dual voltage input and I end up with something old or missing some great newer features! For example, when I bought my DVI and spool gun, a few months later, a more compact, 211 came out! When I bought the Diversion 165, a few months later the 180 came out with the MVP plug option! Same with the Plasma cutter!

Now I have the newer Diversion 180 and the Extreme Plasma, but I know the 211 has been around for a while.

Can one of the Miller insiders or anyone who is familiar with what they are working on, tell me if I should wait or just get the 211? This will be my own set-up and not another one for the shop so I don't want to get stuck with the "old" model...

Thanks in advance for any input!

[MMW]

I haven't heard any rumors. Before the diversion 180 & MM211 came there were plenty of rumors for months before they actually confirmed it & then awhile before you could get one. I would say buy the 211. They really hold their value so if a new upgraded one comes out you should be able to get top dollar for it.

[WeldConstruct]

They are still very much pushing/marketing the 211 w/ Auto-Set. I think you're safe in making a purchase.

[aametalmaster]

Don't feel bad when i bought my MM185 a "new" model MM210 was in its place a few days later. Two of my buddies liked my MM185 and both bought MM210's...Bob

[Miller Swartz]

MM 211 Question

Hello Miller Schwartz!!!! Or any Miller Engineers...

Can one of the Miller insiders or anyone who is familiar with what they are working on, tell me if I should wait or just get the 211? This will be my own set-up and not another one for the shop so I don't want to get stuck with the "old" model...

Thanks in advance for any input!

That’s a fair question Kamikaze. Most people don't like the idea that when they make an investment that they just got yesterday's technology. One needs to look no further than products like the iPhone or iPad as examples of consumer products that are changing faster than consumers wear out the previous model. To help take away some of the heartburn of buying products that are evolving like that, ask yourself this question: "Does the product you are looking to buy right now fill the requirements of what you need right now?" If you answer "yes", you shouldn't feel bad about your purchase even if another version comes out with more features or capability. Now to answer your question specifically... There are no current plans to change the MM 211.

On a side note… We at Miller are constantly looking at ways to make our products better, and as technology evolves, so will product improvements. If we stay complacent and stick with the status quo, we fail as an organization in our effort to provide you with the best welding and cutting products we can. I understand that is little consolation to those early adopters that always want the latest and greatest, only to find out after their purchase that a new model is on the way. That being said, you can still feel confident that you will be getting an excellent product from a company that will always stand behind it.

[JSFAB]

ovwe

If you have a need for something right now, buy it now. If you are going to wait for the newest and best technology, you will be waiting forever. Buy it, use it, make money. If something better comes along, buy new, sell old, don't loose any sleep over it, it is still only a weld.

[Evan Fabrication]

Me too

I got burned on the Diversion 165 too. Cool machine for being my first tig, but a month later the 180 was out. I could really use those 15 extra amps.

[Broccoli1]

I don't find the MM211 Portable @ 74lb

now my Passport Plus is really nice and Portable

[Kamikaze]

Brocolli1,

It is portable when you can carry it as opposed to having to "haul" a DVI!!!

MMW,

I hear what you are saying but when you buy something new in this economy and then try to sell it when the newer version arrives within a month or so, it doesn't hold it's value for resale!

JSFAB,

You make a reasonable statement especially in this day and age when technology is practically obsolete when it is out in the stores for sale! No, I just want to get the best and most advanced I can that will serve me a while longer even if it is just in my mind, that the product I purchased is "old".

Miller Schwartz,

Thank you for the reply! You hit the nail on the head about my feelings of buying the latest and greatest and to be totally honest, I've never had a problem with anything Miller Electric that I've purchased for my business or my personal use! I know I may pay a little more but overall, I know I will find consumables and replacement parts and service for years to come!

Thanks for the replies!

[SundownIII]

Kamakazie,

When you get ready to buy a new truck, do you go down to the dealer and ask, "well are they going to have a 200A stereo on next years model, or are they going to stay with the 100A one like on this years truck?"

No. If you need/want a new truck, you buy the one on the lot (or order one).

When I bought my MM251, a year later Miller introduced the MM252. Did I say, "dang, if I'd waited, I coulda had a V8". No. I looked back at the work the 251 had done for me during the last year and is still doing to this day.

Welding equipment is "pretty advanced" today. The changes from one model to the next are really "baby steps".

[jbmprods]

Kamakazie,

When you get ready to buy a new truck, do you go down to the dealer and ask, "well are they going to have a 200A stereo on next years model, or are they going to stay with the 100A one like on this years truck?"

No. If you need/want a new truck, you buy the one on the lot (or order one).

When I bought my MM251, a year later Miller introduced the MM252. Did I say, "dang, if I'd waited, I coulda had a V8". No. I looked back at the work the 251 had done for me during the last year and is still doing to this day.

Welding equipment is "pretty advanced" today. The changes from one model to the next are really "baby steps".

i looked for a yr for a used 251 because a couple friends have them and love them. well people just are not quick to let the 251 go and i couldn't beg, barrow or steal one so i bought a new 252. i'm very happy with it and my buds get wet looking and playing with it but i don't notice an once of "usable" difference in theirs or mine. just a little shinier.

[Burnt hands]

Kamikaze,

I understand your concerns and offer my very similar thoughts.

A different example - Last month I decided to get a new computer as mine was 3 years old - a dinosaur by today's technology.

And I did this knowing that I would be disappointed as soon as I got home with it and and set it up.

So I decided to have a bit of fun.

On the way home, I stopped at my grocery store and bought a
small foil wrapped well known brand piece of cheese.

After I setup my new computer and worked out all the bugs, I unwrapped the piece of cheese and set it in a plate on top of my new computer.

HUH?????

Well after some days (sorry I forgot to count but about 2 to 3 weeks), the cheese grew a nice film of green hairy mold.

And I decided to check with the computer manufacturer to see the status of my model of computer.
Sure enough it had been replaced by a newer, more powerful model.

So now I know I have a benchmark to check on computer planned obsolescence.

It is a never ending race and leads to many gray hairs and upset stomachs.


But back to your question, I will use my welding mentor as an example.

He can still weld circles around me using his "old, outdated" Syncrowave 250 without pulse feature.

2 to 3 times a year, I ask him to come over to my house to help me with a tricky tig project.

(Oops, sorry I am truly terrible with mig so I stay with tig - better to be bad in one format than all of them)

Anyway, I am truly humbled when he uses my Dynasty 350 and still does unbelievable welds.

DC - no pulse and simple foot control of current.

AC - Sine wave , 60 Hz !! None of the EN,EP,Balance stuff ("too complicated for me", he says) and simple foot control of current. ( On one alum job he did bump up the freq to 120 Hz after doing some test welds so he is aware of the new technology)

Looking at him as he welds is like watching a magician doing an illusion.
Just can't believe how easy he makes it look.

Makes me want to pull out my hair.

But I am so grateful that I have him as a friend and teacher.


Sorry for the distraction but I believe you as the welder, and not necessarily the equipment, truly make the difference.

WeldConstruct, aametalmaster, Miler Swartz, MMW, Evan Fabrication, Broccoli1, Sundownlll, jbmprods, JSFAB, and all the other experts are a wealth of information.

PS - My Dynasty 350 (Jan 2008) does not have the Blue Lightening feature. Wouldn't help me a bit.........

Call me the "Clouseau" of tigging.

[Pmedic415]

Outdated, wornout, or just not pretty anymore?

Being in the computer industry for many years, I can tell you that changes will be here the day after tomorrow. My brother works at a implement dealership, selling big green machines, and would get frustrated at me for telling him about a new product or new feature or doing some work faster. He would complain all the time about how computer companies make it sound like you need a new one every 3 months, and for what they did, it didn't make sense to upgrade. I agree with him!
If what you are doing 6 months, or 6 years from now is the exact same thing you did today, you don't need to upgrade, the same as that big tractor.
As everyone has seen, the farmer either had to get bigger, or get out. Can the 4020 do everything on schedule or should you upgrade to a 7030?
The computer is the same, as we all know they are doing more and more tasks, not just inventory, but automated inventory, tracking, communications, links from the farmer to the local dealer for parts ordering, engineering fixes, the list is beyond your imagination.
How does this apply to welders, well, if your still welding 1/8 mild steel the welder you've had for the past 15 years will probably do the same thing. But if someone now comes in with boron steel, titanium, or aluminum or new
alloys, it probably won't do it - why we upgrade our welders/gases/tools.

Of course, reliability, and trouble free operation are another matter, but we all know that!
I'm not even going to get into medical equipment! Now there is one place that equipment is changing faster than we can pay for the old stuff. From 3 lead cardiac monitors to 12 lead, to AED, to implanted defib/pacemakers. And no one would say, no way, just do CPR, I don't like those new fangled machines, they'll kill you - oh sorry, your clinically dead already.
And yes, a common term when you defibrillate someone, is "Weld'em" or "Smok'em if you got'em" (meaning patient's heart is in ventricular fibrillation)

Ed J.

[Kamikaze]

Guys, I appreciate your comments and input!

But with the analogies of a new truck, a new computer or whatever else, I will argue that the next coming model of most other major purchases have information that the media or the companies "preview" or leaked out to create interest or to tout the newer features and benefits.

With Miller Electric, they have fantastic products but the information of what is in development for newer items and the teasers are far and few, (save for the delay in releasing the Diversion 180).

The Truck analogy would be a good one for most people however with the difference of a feature which I would normally go aftermarket with, (High output Sound System), this is not something that you could do with a MIG welder!

Same with the computer! Being that I rarely find a pre-built computer to my satisfaction, it was cheaper and longer lasting to have a custom built "Clone" done then face the disappointment of buying one and then seeing an ad a week later to find a better one cheaper! With a MIG Welder, this is not an option! You can't buy the components and build your own to the quality and features of Miller's products.

I admit, that I am a picky S-O-B and would also be considered a person that likes to have the latest and greatest as much as possible! Heck! My guys give me a bad time that I keep my units covered and before I put them away, I clean and wax them to keep them looking good as well!

No. I do hear what you guys are saying! But the question I should have asked was, "if anyone could tell me what Miller was working on for the 211 replacement and what newer features would be incorporated".

Thanks for all the comments.

[1930case]

Computers are throwaway products one expects to be junk in two or three years and "obsolete" in one.

Trucks, like welders, are best bought well into their product lifecycle so early adopters work out the bugs. You can easily keep either for 20 years.

The weldor is so much more important than the welder I prefer to buy only very mature product lines. Everyone else should be an early adopter.