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  • #16
    this thread is worthless without pics!!!!

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    • #17
      Well guys... I am going to take your advice and just plain start over. Thanks for all the help.


      Last edited by yodie001; 12-23-2010, 08:15 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by seattle smitty View Post
        For a hole you can't, or don't want to, or shouldn't, fill with rod, one remedy is to make a good-fitting filler-patch out of the same tube you're working with.

        But the thing people wonder about is whether some or many of rest of the joints were poorly fitted . . . and were they poorly welded? Just because they look good from the outside doesn't mean they are good welds. Motorcycle handlebars and frames, auto and truck chassis and suspension parts, trailers and trailer hitches, these are some things which every self-taught owner of a new Chinese MIG welder (not saying this is you) is eager to work on, but shouldn't until he has had some serious instruction. You're asking a question which would SEEM to indicate that you might not have had this background. That's no crime, but don't discount advice from folks who got early experience by having to cut apart their welds or bend them to failure or look at dye-checks, magnaflux, x-rays, all of which tend to make welders careful and cautious. The insistence by your respondents on "doing it right" is not a mere perfectionist fetish as it may seem to you; in this work there is often a d-d thin line between making a good and a bad weld. Welding joints with fit-ups of varying gaps would challenge the best welders, part of why they are also the best fitters. Yes, fitting is tedious; weld-prep is not fun like working the puddle, but that isn't fun either if you get impatient and are trying to do good work with a bad fit-up. It's common to observe that this trade requires good instruction and lots of practice, but it seems to me that at bottom what a good welder needs to have, or learn (and re-learn frequently, in my case) is patience.

        Also, if you're a biker, with biker pals who will want things welded from time to time, don't let them talk you into welding handlebars that have been cracked from a hard landing. Many handlebars are of a strain-hardening alloy, and welding a crack just leaves a disuniformity that can break easily, or so my old instructor taught us.
        Very well said

        I've been a member of the board for a short time compared to a few guys here but I'd like a nickel for each and every time some joker came on here with their latest trailer or trailer hitch project with a HF mig welder and a spool of HF flux core.

        I'll add to the above post with this question. If you are willing to let something like this slide. That the rest of us here feels is a serious safety issue and a critical weld. What exactly would you draw the line on?? And that is what raises the eyebrows here. We have had more then our fare share of inexperienced or no experience welder with said Chinese mig welder trying to weld something that one is beyond the ability of the welder (machine) two is beyond the ability of the weldor (person doing the work) and three is a weld that is life and death critical.

        Just a few weeks ago there was a picture posted here of a trailer hitch welded on the the rear of a RV that FELL OFF.... IT FELL OFF..... IT FELL THE F*&^K OFF (to quote Ron White) and that was a factory weld??????

        So please heed our advice if anything is worth doing it's worth doing right.

        BTW
        This thread is worthless with out BETTER pics
        Last edited by kcstott; 12-23-2010, 08:42 PM.
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        • #19
          I like your tripletree top with the speedo hiding the top nut. Sweet looking. Who's making those?

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          • #20
            the trees are stock...RS Warrior

            And to all the guys that refuse to shut up about the safety...If I take a sledge to the bars and bend them into pretzels and the welds hold will you then quit questioning the weld strength??????? I mean seriously....LET IT GO!!!!
            BTW mig tig and plasma are all miller
            Last edited by yodie001; 12-23-2010, 09:58 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kcstott View Post
              Very well said

              I've been a member of the board for a short time compared to a few guys here but I'd like a nickel for each and every time some joker came on here with their latest trailer or trailer hitch project with a HF mig welder and a spool of HF flux core.

              I'll add to the above post with this question. If you are willing to let something like this slide. That the rest of us here feels is a serious safety issue and a critical weld. What exactly would you draw the line on?? And that is what raises the eyebrows here. We have had more then our fare share of inexperienced or no experience welder with said Chinese mig welder trying to weld something that one is beyond the ability of the welder (machine) two is beyond the ability of the weldor (person doing the work) and three is a weld that is life and death critical.

              Just a few weeks ago there was a picture posted here of a trailer hitch welded on the the rear of a RV that FELL OFF.... IT FELL OFF..... IT FELL THE F*&^K OFF (to quote Ron White) and that was a factory weld??????

              So please heed our advice if anything is worth doing it's worth doing right.

              BTW
              This thread is worthless with out BETTER pics
              Until you can model the bars in PRO/E and load them properly in ANSYS with real world loads (which I can do and I'm rather certain you can not, I doubt you even have a clue as to what I am talking about) keep your snide comments to yourself

              People like you make these forums so pleasant to take part in...thanks!!!!

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              • #22
                Shut up?!! If you ask questions, you obviously can follow them or not, but they really are well-intended and meant to help, not to give you a hard time. If you can't accept them politely then shut up yourself.

                What is it with guys like this? I feel very lucky that there is a place like this where better welders than I are willing to take their time to answer my questions, which probably don't interest them much.

                Matter of fact, Yodie, I once asked about welding on an air compressor tank and got a lot of answers basically suggesting that if I knew so little about the specific requirements of that job I should not do it, for my own SAFETY and that of any innocent parties. Not what I wanted to hear, but I didn't get hacked off and tell people to shut up.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by yodie001 View Post
                  the trees are stock...RS Warrior

                  And to all the guys that refuse to shut up about the safety...If I take a sledge to the bars and bend them into pretzels and the welds hold will you then quit questioning the weld strength??????? I mean seriously....LET IT GO!!!!
                  BTW mig tig and plasma are all miller
                  Bend those suckers in half! Destructive testing tells you a lot about your welds. Might as well, you're starting over anyway. They stole ten hours of your time - don't be afraid to get angry at 'em.
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by yodie001 View Post
                    And to all the guys that refuse to shut up about the safety...If I take a sledge to the bars and bend them into pretzels and the welds hold will you then quit questioning the weld strength??????? I mean seriously....LET IT GO!!!!
                    Yeah, no kidding. Judging from some of the posts here, you'd think that the handlebars needed to be able to take 12 trillion tons of torque...or hold up the Brooklyn Bridge or something.

                    Handlebars need to be strong, but they don't need to be THAT strong.

                    On every bike I've ever ridden, all it takes to bring the handlebars and wheel out of alignment is to dump the bike in some wet grass or whatever. It's not like they're rigidly welded together with 100ksi steel...no, they're held in alignment with what amounts to a bunch of CLAMPS.

                    So if you get them out of alignment all you need to do to fix it is put the front wheel next to a tree or a post, and smack the handlebar so that the front of the wheel smacks the tree or post. WALA - back into alignment (assuming the forks aren't bent and other damage hasn't been done).

                    My guess is that it would take a LOT more force to bend or break that handlebar, than it would take to bend the forks. SO: How strong do the forks need to be (since apparently the handlebars need to be 100X stronger than the forks)?

                    Before the flame wars begin, YES I AGREE that the you need to have 100% confidence in the welds. But to suggest that the planet is going to spin off its axis if the handlebars can't take 100 tons of force before the welds fail is ridiculous.

                    Happy holidays, all!
                    Last edited by Helios; 12-24-2010, 10:14 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Beat them, bend them, twist them. If the welds hold up.....he11, I say put em back on the bike.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Helios View Post
                        Yeah, no kidding. Judging from some of the posts here, you'd think that the handlebars needed to be able to take 12 trillion tons of torque...or hold up the Brooklyn Bridge or something.

                        Handlebars need to be strong, but they don't need to be THAT strong.

                        On every bike I've ever ridden, all it takes to bring the handlebars and wheel out of alignment is to dump the bike in some wet grass or whatever. It's not like they're rigidly welded together with 100ksi steel...no, they're held in alignment with what amounts to a bunch of CLAMPS.

                        So if you get them out of alignment all you need to do to fix it is put the front wheel next to a tree or a post, and smack the handlebar so that the front of the wheel smacks the tree or post. WALA - back into alignment (assuming the forks aren't bent and other damage hasn't been done).

                        My guess is that it would take a LOT more force to bend or break that handlebar, than it would take to bend the forks. SO: How strong do the forks need to be (since apparently the handlebars need to be 100X stronger than the forks)?

                        Before the flame wars begin, YES I AGREE that the you need to have 100% confidence in the welds. But to suggest that the planet is going to spin off its axis if the handlebars can't take 100 tons of force before the welds fail is ridiculous.

                        Happy holidays, all!
                        AMEN...thanks for that post.

                        I posted with a question, so I'm prepared to take some productive criticism. But just because i'm new to the site don't assume I have no clue as to what I am doing. I am not an expert welder and I know my limits....this project is well within my limits. These new bars are literally 2x the diameter and 3x the wall thickness of the stock bars. Thank you to all of you that have posted useful advice.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by yodie001 View Post
                          Until you can model the bars in PRO/E and load them properly in ANSYS with real world loads (which I can do and I'm rather certain you can not, I doubt you even have a clue as to what I am talking about) keep your snide comments to yourself

                          People like you make these forums so pleasant to take part in...thanks!!!!
                          Until you know who you're talking too I suggest you keep your mouth shut. I've been a tool maker for twenty years and have a good amount of experience with ProE there buddy. Don't assume for a minute you're the only one with the ability to run a stress analysis on a solid model.... And just because I post on a welding board doesn't mean I'm a welder. I weld in my day job but not everyday.

                          Now then would you like it in a full rendered solid or a shaded wire frame??? Iges file ok for you.....
                          Last edited by kcstott; 12-24-2010, 10:20 AM.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kcstott View Post
                            Until you know who you're talking too I suggest you keep your mouth shut. I've been a tool maker for twenty years and have a good amount of experience with ProE there buddy. Don't assume for a minute you're the only one with the ability to run a stress analysis on a solid model.... And just because I post on a welding board doesn't mean I'm a welder. I weld in my day job but not everyday.

                            Now then would you like it in a full rendered solid or a shaded wire frame??? Iges file ok for you.....
                            Shaded wire frame...what are you using, the original autocad??? this is
                            2010 you know... What SF are you going to use??? What good is it going to do to make a model if you can't test the model?
                            Anyway...you ruffled my feathers first, so don't get your panties in a wad...If you can't roll with the punches don't throw them. I asked a question because I didn't know the answer and you assumed i was an idiot. Do you ever ask questions on this forum or are you a know it all that sits back and insults people...
                            Last edited by yodie001; 12-24-2010, 02:38 PM.

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                            • #29
                              so exactly where did I call or assume you were an idiot?? All my posts were directed at the safety issue something you cared not to hear. I tried to be cordial in my posts while trying to explain to you why you were getting the third degree from everyone including me.

                              Your second and third post demonstrated your attitude and ethics perfectly. Ask a question and keep asking until you get the answer you want to hear.

                              That ain't how life works bud. And no it's not Autocad. I haven't used Autocad since release 14. I've done work in Pro E, Solid works, Gibbs, Alibre to mention a few. But what you don't realize is that even ProE will draw in a shaded wire frame and if you knew any better that's what you would draw in because it taxes your computer's resources less and if you have to have a solid it's a simple operation to convert it. Why go through all the trouble to create a solid model when a wire frame will do. Wasted energy

                              So you have all this skill as a designer but you can't fit a part to save your life. Sounds like you been polishing a chair with your butt to long
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by yodie001 View Post
                                a few questions here:
                                I am building a set of motorcycle handle bars. There is a joint that has a decent gap that i cant fill with the tig. Can I fill it with the mig then use the tig to get it looking better?

                                I already tried and I'm getting bubbles in the weld when I tig. But I also just switched out tanks on the mig. Come to find out I got a tank of 100% argon instead of mix...Is this the cause of the bubbles...Ive heard that pure argon is not good for good penetration in mig welds...
                                yes- Argon-no workie wid da Migoline machines unless you be doin' Aloominum.

                                yes you can fill with Mig and then cover with Tig to make it Look better


                                handlebars breaking? Sheite I would just ride with no hands then.
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