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  • Convert 3-phase welder to single phase

    Is it possible to convert a 3 phase Miller welder for use with single phase power? I'm not concerned if amp output is slightly reduced.

  • #2
    Anything is possible but in my opinion it's not worth it. I've heard you can run them on a phase converter but have no personal experience on that.
    MM250
    Trailblazer 250g
    22a feeder
    Lincoln ac/dc 225
    Victor O/A
    MM200 black face
    Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
    Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
    Arco roto-phase model M
    Vectrax 7x12 band saw
    Miller spectrum 875
    30a spoolgun w/wc-24
    Syncrowave 250
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    • #3
      Yup. Sure is.

      Feasible, yes. Practical? I guess that depends on a few things. I have heard this question asked a number of times so my response is not to be taken as a bash. Just solid advice from someone who's been in the machine buy & sell business for a long time.

      Some dude here posted a pretty detailed step by step tutorial on a couple he's done. These were transformer machines. A search will most likely turn it up. He's an electronics guru & outlined the whole thing. Knows far more than I ever will, at least bookwise. I didn't really have any application or any practical use for it, so I never bothered to remember much about it.

      If you just happen have a lot of free time, money to buy the needed extra components & feel like being stuck with a permanently modified three phase machine with a limited, inefficient output, that's worth about nothing in the resale market after all your money & time, knock yourself out.

      I would put my efforts towards saving the money to buy a single phase machine with a good resale value if you happen to want to sell it down the road. There are many options available & some for dirt cheap if you shop around.

      Just a few are the Spoolmate 200, Regency Series, SCP 200C & Maxtron inverter units. All these older units will operate from single phase power & can be had cheap if you are patient & do some looking.

      When XMT 304 CC/CV inverters are selling for under a grand on the resale market all day long, I would be doing some serious looking around before jumping on a project like this, unless of course you want to do it solely for the experience. Kudos to you on it if so

      Some hacked together three phase machine modified to run on single phase current will be worth little to nothing & a hard sell at best if you decide to sell it, wanting something different in the future. You'll most likely be stuck with it & almost nobody reputable will touch it if you were to have issues with it either. I sure wouldn't.

      IMHO of course.
      7A749
      Senior Member
      Last edited by 7A749; 12-17-2010, 07:07 PM.
      So you're telling me...You're not nostalgic? Then, give me another word for it......

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      • #4
        Reason for asking

        I've got a Miller Dialarc 250 ac/dc single phase machine that welds stick like a dream. I can tig with it but it's not terribly smooth and I have to crank the dial manually to control the amps. I was looking for something though that would give me tig/mig capability with foot pedal control on the tig output. I was hoping the answer was a Miller Dimension 652 that is 3 phase. I really don't care much about selling it later if I could convert it to run single phase. I keep my tools until they croak. I'm 50 now and I've still got the 50 amp Sears welder I got for Christmas when I was 13. It still works too. So if I can make the 652 run single phase without spending a fortune, I'd be up for it. If not, ?

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        • #5
          I would look at a SynchroWave. They are single phase. My single phase DialArc HF welds smoothly, but doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles. You can always run a single phase machine from 3 phase power, but the other way around? Why?
          AutoArc 230 (MM 210)
          3035 spoolgun
          Spectrum 625
          Dialarc HF w/Coolmate 4

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          • #6
            2 legs

            A single phase machine will run from 3 phase if you use 2 legs from the 3 phase.
            A 3 phase machine can't run on 2 legs. It needs the third leg to run.
            Good Luck,
            Bob
            Millermatic 252 w/30A
            Big Blue Air Pak
            Ellis 3000 Band Saw
            Trailblazer 302 Air Pak w/ Wireless Remote
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            XMT 350 MPa w/S-74 MPa Plus
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            Lincoln SA-200 Blue Tint Red Face '63
            2-Lincoln SA-200 Red Face '68
            SA-200 Black Face '59
            SA-200 Green Lite '84
            SA-200 Green Lite '80
            SA-200 Red Face '69
            SA-200 Red Face '66
            SA-200 Green Lite '81
            '70 Black Face Round Barrel

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            • #7
              Xmt

              hun, The XMT is the perfect fit for you, mig , tig dc/w remote-14, and stick.
              If you need ac tig (different machine) then you are going to lose the mig part.
              If you want it all the Trailblazer Series, Bobcat Series, Big 40, or the Big Blue Air Pak.
              These are all engine drives.
              The only machine I remember that would do everything was the Shopmaster AC/DC.
              Good Luck,
              Bob
              Millermatic 252 w/30A
              Big Blue Air Pak
              Ellis 3000 Band Saw
              Trailblazer 302 Air Pak w/ Wireless Remote
              8-RC
              Dynasty 200 DX
              XMT 350 MPa w/S-74 MPa Plus
              Millermatic 211
              Passport Plus
              Spectrum 625 X-TREME
              Lincoln SA-200 Blue Tint Red Face '63
              2-Lincoln SA-200 Red Face '68
              SA-200 Black Face '59
              SA-200 Green Lite '84
              SA-200 Green Lite '80
              SA-200 Red Face '69
              SA-200 Red Face '66
              SA-200 Green Lite '81
              '70 Black Face Round Barrel

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              • #8
                This thread might interest you, sounds just like what you're thinking on doing

                Check this out, it will be educational I believe.

                http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-206509/

                and

                http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-phase-199832/
                alha
                Senior Member
                Last edited by alha; 12-19-2010, 06:37 PM.

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                • #9
                  If you want mig and tig out of the same machine there are only two machines I know of that can do this in the miller line.
                  One is a Shop mate I believe and then the XMT line of welders. This will get you around 300 amps of power
                  I'd recommend a XMT 304 and a 12VS X treme wire feeder. You won't have high frequency start on the tig but it does everything you want. All for around $2000 used.
                  Miller Syncrowave 200 W/Radiator 1A & water cooled torch
                  Millermatic 252 on the wish list
                  Bridgeport Mill W/ 2 axis CNC control
                  South bend lathe 10LX40
                  K.O. Lee surface grinder 6X18
                  Over 20 years as a Machinist Toolmaker
                  A TWO CAR garage full of tools and a fridge full of beer
                  Auto shades are for rookies
                  www.KLStottlemyer.com

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hunamongyou View Post
                    I've got a Miller Dialarc 250 ac/dc single phase machine that welds stick like a dream. I can tig with it but it's not terribly smooth and I have to crank the dial manually to control the amps. I was looking for something though that would give me tig/mig capability with foot pedal control on the tig output. I was hoping the answer was a Miller Dimension 652 that is 3 phase. I really don't care much about selling it later if I could convert it to run single phase. I keep my tools until they croak. I'm 50 now and I've still got the 50 amp Sears welder I got for Christmas when I was 13. It still works too. So if I can make the 652 run single phase without spending a fortune, I'd be up for it. If not, ?
                    IMHO, look for a buyer for the 652. That's a great multi purpose 3 phase DC CC/CV machine & has a very good value on the resale market.

                    Can you say CAC? Bigtime easy with that unit. 3/8" Carbons will run with ease on it. That is an attractive feature to many heavy industrial users.

                    Butchering up that good a machine when it would yield a very good resale price to the right buyer is just foolish. Not to mention it is a solid state machine in comparison to the analog units dude made his "single phase" machines from. The guy that did the "conversions" butchered the he11 out of the machines he used & had to add capacitors to smooth out the output power for single phase operation. The machines he used were dinosaurs. The machine you have is a far cry from an old CP 200/300 that are a dime a dozen at auction.

                    I'm betting member Weldersales would be very interested in your machine & may even do a swap for a good running single phase capable inverter such as an XMT 304 or Maxtron 450. I cannot speak for him, but he knows as well as I do there's a very good market for that machine used & in good working order.

                    I would PM him, or google Larry Burross of Applied Equipment in Dallas, TX.

                    If I had a couple XMT's sitting around, it would be a no brainer for me. The Dimension 652 has a very desirable niche market & the right buyer will pay thru the nose for a used one.

                    Kinda like the Syncrowave 500. But that's another story altogether......

                    I would seriously consider it over making a piece of crap out of a very desirable machine.

                    IMHO of course.
                    7A749
                    Senior Member
                    Last edited by 7A749; 12-19-2010, 09:58 PM.
                    So you're telling me...You're not nostalgic? Then, give me another word for it......

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hunamongyou View Post
                      I've got a Miller Dialarc 250 ac/dc single phase machine that welds stick like a dream. I can tig with it but it's not terribly smooth and I have to crank the dial manually to control the amps. I was looking for something though that would give me tig/mig capability with foot pedal control on the tig output. I was hoping the answer was a Miller Dimension 652 that is 3 phase. I really don't care much about selling it later if I could convert it to run single phase. I keep my tools until they croak. I'm 50 now and I've still got the 50 amp Sears welder I got for Christmas when I was 13. It still works too. So if I can make the 652 run single phase without spending a fortune, I'd be up for it. If not, ?
                      If you are happy with the Dialarc, don't change.

                      You can install the remote receptacle kit (Miller #041111) onto the front of the Dialarc and then you can use the RFC-23A (Miller #242199020) foot pedal control. That will give you foot control of your amperage for about $440 list price.

                      About the 3 phase power source on single phase, the answer is don't do it. Not recommended. You would need to buy a phase converter that can support the amperage and kW draw of the welding power source you are going to connect to it. Even after putting that much extra money into the project, the weld output of the Dimension will not be as good when it is connected to true 3-phase power. The Dimension is a solid state, phase-fired SCR welder and the timing of the firing circuit will not work as accurately when connected to the phase converter.
                      blue_tech
                      Senior Member
                      Last edited by blue_tech; 01-05-2011, 02:22 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Butchered?

                        " The guy that did the "conversions" butchered the he11 out of the machines he used & had to add capacitors to smooth out the output power for single phase operation. The machines he used were dinosaurs. The machine you have is a far cry from an old CP 200/300 that are a dime a dozen at auction." ----------- Butchered? NO... all connections inside are intact, easily reconnectable. I even re-used existing jumpers. The CP200 and CP300s require no additional capacitors to run smoothly- the capacitors are installed in series with the center coil to provide phase shift. Calculate for 90 degrees at FLA, and use at LEAST 1.5x rated voltage, in a MOTOR RUN oil-filled cap. I tested the CP-250TS with a 'smoothing cap' because the CP-250TS wasn't working well in short-arc mode... turns out it wasn't DESIGNED or INTENDED to operate in short-arc modes, just spray mode. It spray modes at 375A wonderfully... but what it really needs, is the external inductor accessory that Miller made for it after-the-fact. Solid-state on the output side of the welding transformer makes no difference- it works just fine. What's happening here is incredibly simple- you're running a 3 phase transformer in a three-phase sequence. The output of the transformer into the rectifier array is indeed three phase. Check out the SRH-333, it's a sweetheart too!
                        DaveKamp
                        Junior Member
                        Last edited by DaveKamp; 11-07-2011, 07:49 AM. Reason: formatting

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                        • #13
                          Now Dave you know ole Franz said it couldn't be done so WHY do you keep showing that it CAN?
                          ROTFLMAO!

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                          • #14
                            I've not heard of anyone who had done the mods deciding they svck3d and converting back to three phase to sell off the machines.

                            These threads are interesting, but like running welders off RPCs, the people who do it routinely don't seem to run into the problems those with theoretical qualms about the process expect.

                            I'll eventually do one for amusement, but haven't scored a suitable victim.

                            Here's a cheap ($300) CP 300 in NC, but it's too far for me to drive. Maybe someone else can put it to use:

                            http://raleigh.craigslist.org/tls/2683339556.html

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