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  • Help please auto idle problem

    I hope some one can help me out with this. I have a hobart engine drive welder that I love. The only problem with it is I have to manually switch it to fast idle before welding because the auto idle setting doesn't work and hasn't the hole time I've owned it.

    I've gone through the entire set up foe the auto idle and it's pretty simple I think Tell me if this sounds right in general. You strike and arc this causes a magnetic field to form that trips a reed switch the activates the timing module and kicks it up to fast idle. When you stop welding the magnetic field stops and the reed switch open and the timing module stays on for about 10 seconds. does this sound about right?

    Now here's the problem I"m told the Timing module is not a part I can buy for this machine anymore. So I started to look on the web and came up with this. Can I buy a off delay timer and reed switch and essentially make my one setup similar? I forgot to mention that it activates a pull type solenoid that pulls on the throttle linkage.

    Where can I buy the components I need and are there any I haven't mentioned that I will need? I am not an electronics guy but am willing to try anything to fix this I just would like to do it on the cheap. Can I by these parts online and if so from where.

    Please help me
    Hobart Mega Arc 5040DD (with built in air compressor)
    MM Passport Plus with Q-gun
    O/A

    sold MM 251

    There are only 2 tools needed in a tool box. 1) Duct tape to fix any thing that moves that isn't supposed to. 2) WD40 to fix anything that doesn't move but should.

  • #2
    It would help to know the age of the machine. The idler solenoid on some of the old machines would energize to high idle where the new ones will energize to low idle. You might want to check the adjustment of your idler solenoid before you get to far into messing with the hall device. If your solenoid is sitting too far out of adjustment, you won't have enough of the pull rod sitting in the solenoid body for the electromagnet to grab a hold if it to pull it in.
    On the newer machines, you have a hall device that senses when you have arc current flowing through your leads. If your machine has an older reed switch on it then you might want to check the voltage going to it and see if you can't find a michine that has a hall device with the same supply voltage. If you can find one then it's as simple as unhooking your line going to the back of the stinger output stud, slipping the hall device over that line and then wiring up the trigger circuit so it can signal the control board when to idle up and down. I might be wrong but in theory it should work.

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    • #3
      you can test the reed switch with magnet and a ohm meter.
      Make sure all the connections are goo to the pc board. Some pc boards use one of the mounting studs as a ground. Check for this and make sure it is clean and tight.
      Glenn 300 amp stick
      Millermatic 35
      L-tec plasma

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bellamachinery View Post
        It would help to know the age of the machine. The idler solenoid on some of the old machines would energize to high idle where the new ones will energize to low idle. You might want to check the adjustment of your idler solenoid before you get to far into messing with the hall device. If your solenoid is sitting too far out of adjustment, you won't have enough of the pull rod sitting in the solenoid body for the electromagnet to grab a hold if it to pull it in.
        On the newer machines, you have a hall device that senses when you have arc current flowing through your leads. If your machine has an older reed switch on it then you might want to check the voltage going to it and see if you can't find a michine that has a hall device with the same supply voltage. If you can find one then it's as simple as unhooking your line going to the back of the stinger output stud, slipping the hall device over that line and then wiring up the trigger circuit so it can signal the control board when to idle up and down. I might be wrong but in theory it should work.
        I know the solenoid is adjusted good because it goes to high idle when I set the three way switch to high idle. It just doesn't work when I set the switch to auto idle.

        I will scan the diagram I have for it either tonight or tomorrow and post it to give a better idea of what I am talking about.
        Hobart Mega Arc 5040DD (with built in air compressor)
        MM Passport Plus with Q-gun
        O/A

        sold MM 251

        There are only 2 tools needed in a tool box. 1) Duct tape to fix any thing that moves that isn't supposed to. 2) WD40 to fix anything that doesn't move but should.

        Comment


        • #5
          Here is the wiring diagram I hope this helps.
          Click image for larger version

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          Hobart Mega Arc 5040DD (with built in air compressor)
          MM Passport Plus with Q-gun
          O/A

          sold MM 251

          There are only 2 tools needed in a tool box. 1) Duct tape to fix any thing that moves that isn't supposed to. 2) WD40 to fix anything that doesn't move but should.

          Comment


          • #6
            Heres an update so far. I built my own auto idle circuit using and adjustable timer some relays and a read switch. The new set up works great and I can adjust how long it stays on high idle for after the arc is broken. The only problem is it would go to fast idle when a load is put on the ac power outlets. I need to come up with a way to sense a load on the outlets to activate the circuit I built.

            Is this possable and if so how? I know very little about AC circuits or anything to do with AC current for that matter.

            Thanks.
            Hobart Mega Arc 5040DD (with built in air compressor)
            MM Passport Plus with Q-gun
            O/A

            sold MM 251

            There are only 2 tools needed in a tool box. 1) Duct tape to fix any thing that moves that isn't supposed to. 2) WD40 to fix anything that doesn't move but should.

            Comment


            • #7
              The reed switch should only be on the weld circuit.

              I assume this is not the case

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes the reed switch is only on the welding side but I need to find a way to make the auto idle work when a load is put on the ac power outlets. From what I've been told so far this was achieved with the idle current coil on the old setup with the old time. I was told this wouldn't work with my set up because the coils output was low voltage ac and wouldn't work to trip the relays. I hope I wrote that correctly this is new me and I am learning this as I go.

                Basically what I have is a reed switch that when it closes it activates the solenoid using a relay. When the read swich opens it activates the timer using a second relay the timer then contols the solenoid until the set time runs out the the solenoid releases. I want to be able to achieve the same thing when a load is put on the ac outlets by something like a grinder. It's my understanding that this is how the machine would have worked when it was origenaly purchased.

                Is there hope for this or am I wanting things that can't be?
                Hobart Mega Arc 5040DD (with built in air compressor)
                MM Passport Plus with Q-gun
                O/A

                sold MM 251

                There are only 2 tools needed in a tool box. 1) Duct tape to fix any thing that moves that isn't supposed to. 2) WD40 to fix anything that doesn't move but should.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most of the welder generators that I've worked with have a switch to choose idle mode and high rpm. For aux power you would turn the machine output up to max and select high rpm. I don't recall any that automatically idled up when a load was sensed at the ac outlets. I don't believe you would want an auto idle on aux power, as the delay to get to max. rpm ( and power output) will be greater than the time it takes for the tool to need full power for start up after the switch is pressed. This would result in a short motor life on your tools.
                  Last edited by davinci2010; 06-10-2010, 12:25 AM.
                  Sometimes there's no second chances.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by davinci2010 View Post
                    Most of the welder generators that I've worked with have a switch to choose idle mode and high rpm. For aux power you would turn the machine output up to max and select high rpm. I don't recall any that automatically idled up when a load was sensed at the ac outlets. I don't believe you would want an auto idle on aux power, as the delay to get to max. rpm ( and power output) will be greater than the time it takes for the tool to need full power for start up after the switch is pressed. This would result in a short motor life on your tools.
                    All of the new stuff idles up automatically when a big enough AC load is applied (doesn't take much load or much time), and it is completely independent of the welder output control.
                    at home:
                    2012 325 Trailblazer EFI with Excel power
                    2007 302 Trailblazer with the Robin SOLD
                    2008 Suitcase 12RC
                    Spoolmatic 30A
                    WC-24
                    2009 Dynasty 200DX
                    2000 XMT 304
                    2008 Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
                    Sold:MM130XP
                    Sold:MM 251
                    Sold:CST 280

                    at work:
                    Invision 350MP
                    Dynasty 350
                    Millermatic 350P
                    Retired:Shopmaster 300 with a HF-251

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                    • #11
                      sorry I mis read the question, some hobarts/Millers make 60hz power at idle and 100hz at weld load. You didn't mention what type of Hobart you had other than your alias.

                      You'll need another reed switch with the hot not the neutral wrapped around it in parrellel with the weld reed.

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                      • #12
                        A Lincoln sa200 idle board would be the easiest solution to your woes. There are lots of clone boards around then you only need your weld reed switch. No other timers are required and its very simple to modify to any machine.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                          some hobarts/Millers make 60hz power at idle and 100hz at weld load.
                          Good to know.
                          at home:
                          2012 325 Trailblazer EFI with Excel power
                          2007 302 Trailblazer with the Robin SOLD
                          2008 Suitcase 12RC
                          Spoolmatic 30A
                          WC-24
                          2009 Dynasty 200DX
                          2000 XMT 304
                          2008 Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
                          Sold:MM130XP
                          Sold:MM 251
                          Sold:CST 280

                          at work:
                          Invision 350MP
                          Dynasty 350
                          Millermatic 350P
                          Retired:Shopmaster 300 with a HF-251

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                            You'll need another reed switch with the hot not the neutral wrapped around it in parrellel with the weld reed.
                            I have a second reed switch but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "with the hot not the neutral wrapped around it"? Do you mean the hot wire going to the ac outlet?

                            Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                            A Lincoln sa200 idle board would be the easiest solution to your woes. There are lots of clone boards around then you only need your weld reed switch. No other timers are required and its very simple to modify to any machine.
                            Where can someone get one of these and how much are they? If possible I would like to use the set up that I made mainly because I already have it installed and the money spent on the parts already. I would hate to pull it all out and just have the parts kicking around for ever. Unless this is the cheaper alternative or the only way to achieve what I need.

                            Thanks for all the help I'm slowly starting to learn more about how this machine works.
                            Hobart Mega Arc 5040DD (with built in air compressor)
                            MM Passport Plus with Q-gun
                            O/A

                            sold MM 251

                            There are only 2 tools needed in a tool box. 1) Duct tape to fix any thing that moves that isn't supposed to. 2) WD40 to fix anything that doesn't move but should.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              $96 bucks at:www.weldmart.com

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