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  • #31
    They have a nice finish and are easy to use.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by burninbriar View Post
      If an improperly stored low hydrogen rod does not keep the hydrogen out, is their even any reason for someone to use them at all? Why not just use another type rod with the same tensile strength?
      I am talking about non-code type work, like home use.

      I have about a hundred pounds of 7018 a guy gave me, all open packages. They look awful and I don't use them but can't get the nerve to throw them away.
      "This is straight from a Lincoln Welding rep: " If you do not keep your 7018 electrodes properly stored, you may as well be welding with 6010."

      Now who would I listen to: The Lincoln welding rep or a store clerk?"

      From page 1.


      Griff

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      • #33
        Originally posted by snoeproe View Post
        This doesn't make sense to me. Why is the porosity only at the start of your bead and not all the way through if the rod is contaminated with moisture? Sounds more like too long of an arc (lack of shielding) when starting the bead. This is a common problem when using 7018.
        Agreed. I found this thread yesterday while having issues with E7018 porosity. I read the first post and blamed it on the rods.

        Today, I read thru the whole thread and saw this. I tried it again, trying to keep a short arc at the start. I scratch start back into the start point. I keep the arc length small almost dragging the rod. The rods work fine. The beads look really nice when I get it right. The slag just flakes off!

        I bought my rods from a big box store. They came in a cardboard box from Lincoln with no vapor seal. They are night and day cleaner than the 6013s I also bought, but they are hard to start. I am going to try the 6013s for my awkward tacking and finish with the 7018.

        I will have some 6011s available Monday. I am still learning, but I think these will be my rod of choice. I also want to try some 7024s.

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        • #34
          7018's are changed out every 4 hours on jobs, 8018's every 2 hours, 9018's every hour and 10018's every 1/2 hour.

          That is pure BS. I work in a code shop[A.S.M.E. Boiler code section 1] and we can keep rods out on the job for 8 hours then they must return to the rod ovens for 16 hours. That is any rod 70 , 80 , 90, stainless and/or Inconel. Each shift has it's own rod ovens to insure that the rods are not keep out longer than allowed by code. Also I've talked on numerious occasions with one of our top metalurgist and he told me the reason alot of rods such as the good ol 7018 have porosity issues is the continuing efforts to drive out hyrogen[moisture] from the rods. So I don't buy that rods keep in the oven have less issues with porosity but none the less it is the gospel in code shops like I work in.
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Showdog75 View Post
            7018's are changed out every 4 hours on jobs, 8018's every 2 hours, 9018's every hour and 10018's every 1/2 hour.

            That is pure BS. I work in a code shop[A.S.M.E. Boiler code section 1] and we can keep rods out on the job for 8 hours then they must return to the rod ovens for 16 hours. That is any rod 70 , 80 , 90, stainless and/or Inconel. Each shift has it's own rod ovens to insure that the rods are not keep out longer than allowed by code. Also I've talked on numerious occasions with one of our top metalurgist and he told me the reason alot of rods such as the good ol 7018 have porosity issues is the continuing efforts to drive out hyrogen[moisture] from the rods. So I don't buy that rods keep in the oven have less issues with porosity but none the less it is the gospel in code shops like I work in.
            Careful with Inconel electrodes. Different manufacturers recommend different storage methods. Special Metals (the leader in Inconel) does not recommend using conventional ovens.
            Last edited by atc250r; 11-13-2010, 08:26 AM.

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            • #36
              Just throwing in my .02, but we're limited to 8 hours on the job with the same rod, they dont get on us too much abt the 7018, but 10718, and 11018 rod we sure better take it back and get fresh if we work OT. This job I have now is the first i've welded with rod out of an oven, and it does weld noticeably better, esp the 107 rod, I'm thinkin abt buying a small oven for home just for the fact that it does weld so much smoother.

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              • #37
                ****... Seems like for hobby welders like me who go through a 5kg box of rods in a year, at most, expending money on LH rods like he 7018 is sort of a waste of money.

                When I started reading about welding I found out that I started welding with 6013. since the 7018 was supposed to be so easy to manipulate (almost a drag rod) I wanted to try and bought the smallest box I could find. It was a 3kg box of 2,5mm x 300mm. I used a bunch of them to get a feel, found out that I needed a lot of amperage and that they were not suited at all for anything thinner than 4mm... and since then they sit unused in the shop. Open container mind you. Seems like I wasted a lot of money because even if I get into something that requieres that kind of rod, the ones I already have are pretty much useless.

                Guess I should have bought 6010 instead and learnt to manipulate it as it requires. That's why I just got a 12kg box of 2,5mm x 300 rods!!! XD XD...

                Mikel

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                • #38
                  Different codes

                  have different requirements, and then you add in the Owners weld rod control
                  procedure. AWSD1.1(1994) gives the option of qualifying your own rod storage procedure. If you work in Arizona you may qualify your own procedure and get
                  more time of exposure. If you work along the Gulf Coast or in GA or FLA , you
                  are better off going with AWS 4 hours for 7018 and save the time.

                  I was told one time that the core of a 6010 and a 7018 are almost identical, but
                  I have never seen that in writing anywhere. Also, again verbal, you dont have to be concerned about hydrogen cracking if your base material is 3/8 or less. I know
                  that after checking PQRs for years that 6010 frequently pulls in the high 60s. so
                  not much difference there.

                  For non code, I keep my 7018 in what used to be a medical storage compartment
                  for refrigerated medicine, just add the light bulb. Seems to work fine. For
                  important work I but the 5lb sealed containers and leftovers go to the box with the bulb. I do know that as some have stated in this thread that the higher the tensile , the shorter the exposure time. I`ve seen that before in weld rod control
                  procedures from owners.

                  old but new

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                  • #39
                    E-7024

                    Originally posted by willysnowman View Post
                    Agreed. I found this thread yesterday while having issues with E7018 porosity. I read the first post and blamed it on the rods.

                    Today, I read thru the whole thread and saw this. I tried it again, trying to keep a short arc at the start. I scratch start back into the start point. I keep the arc length small almost dragging the rod. The rods work fine. The beads look really nice when I get it right. The slag just flakes off!

                    I bought my rods from a big box store. They came in a cardboard box from Lincoln with no vapor seal. They are night and day cleaner than the 6013s I also bought, but they are hard to start. I am going to try the 6013s for my awkward tacking and finish with the 7018.

                    I will have some 6011s available Monday. I am still learning, but I think these will be my rod of choice. I also want to try some 7024s.
                    Willy: 7024's are a "Jet" rod used in high deposition applications, and are limited to flat and horizontal work, with a maximum of 15 degree downhill use with shallow penetration.

                    More often than not, you'll find these sold in 50# cans, and unless you have a very large plate project, the expense would not justify the means.

                    If you have a good DC arc welder, your best bet is to avoid those 'big box" store rods (they are generally 7018 AC rods) and buy some good Hobart 418's or Lincoln Excaliburs and practice your out of position welds using 6011 or 6010's for tacks.

                    6013's are okay for sheet metal, short, irregular welds and actually are designed for AC welders with a low OCV (open circuit voltage).

                    The machine you use, will dictate the type of rods and quality of welds.

                    Miller's little Maxstar 150S will weld circles around a Lincoln AC "buzzbox."

                    Familiarize yourself with what the numbers represent regarding welding rods.

                    The first two numbers (e.g. 8010-B1-H4R) is the tensile strength (80# ksi)
                    the thrid number would be position, the fourth is type of coating, current.

                    The additional numbers refer to chemical composition and the last group is the maximum diffusible hydrogen level obtained on the AWS A4.3 test. (H4 = max 4.0 ml/100 g) and the "R" means Moisture Reistance

                    Position numbers are:

                    1 = All Position
                    2 = Flat & Horz ONLY
                    4 = Flat, Horizontal, Vertical Down (usually 15 degree max) and overhead
                    "Bonne journe'e mes amis"

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                    • #40
                      E7018

                      I'm a hobby welder and have a large box of 3/32 E7018s I've been using off and on for over 20 years (yes, I don't weld that much). I store them in an unheated garage and in the origional box wrapped and sealed in two layers of heavy plastic. I have done several projects, including a utility trailer, with this box and my welds appear to be good and I never had a problem with failure. The other day I bought some new E7018s to compare. I tried running a bead with the old and the new. I couldn't tell the difference. IMHO I think for my use I don't need an electrode oven.

                      Do you think the plastic wrap is working to keep them from drawing moisture or is bead appearance not the issue? I would assume that old rods would not test xray inspection?

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                      • #41
                        Have I ever welded with improperly stored or "stale" 7018? Yes. Will it work? Yes. Do I trust it to hold an attachment for a garden tractor together? Yes. Do I trust it to hold a structural beam together? No. Does "stale" 7018 run as nice as properly stored rod? No. Would I want to take a 3g test with stale rod? Definitely no!

                        If you take the code work vs. non-code work argument out of the equation, 7018's just plain run better when they're hot. Smoother starts, more consistent bead. It's a much more user-friendly rod when you keep it like it was meant to be kept - hot and dry. I'll always use rod fresh out of the oven before I'll use fresh out of the package (dry, but room temp). The combo of identical rod, identical brand, identical operating temp, identical amp range, identical welder, and identical weldor will result in extremely *predictable and consistent* welds. It takes a while to achieve that kind of weld quality and once you find it, you'll probably want to stick with it (pun intended). You'll never get consistent results with old/stale 7018 because it's an unpredictable variable. Consistency is everything.

                        That's my 2 cents on it.
                        2007 Miller Dynasty 200 DX
                        2005 Miller Passport 180

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Niles View Post
                          Do you think the plastic wrap is working to keep them from drawing moisture or is bead appearance not the issue?
                          Have you ever took a grinder to one of your beads with the old rod? Just try it next time, you may find small pinholes (porosity) once you grind into the weld.
                          Like MR.57 said they will probably work for your small non critical jobs around the house.
                          at home:
                          2012 325 Trailblazer EFI with Excel power
                          2007 302 Trailblazer with the Robin SOLD
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                          at work:
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                          • #43
                            "This is straight from a Lincoln Welding rep: " If you do not keep your 7018 electrodes properly stored, you may as well be welding with 6010."

                            Now who would I listen to: The Lincoln welding rep or a store clerk?"
                            Isnt that pretty much what the store clerk said?

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                            • #44
                              For most home use etc there isn't much point in 7018 other than pretty beads. Make friends with 6010/6011 and have at it.

                              There is a reason they make cellulose rods, and they work fine for their intended purpose.

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                              • #45
                                We have a winner

                                Originally posted by MR.57 View Post
                                Have I ever welded with improperly stored or "stale" 7018? Yes. Will it work? Yes. Do I trust it to hold an attachment for a garden tractor together? Yes. Do I trust it to hold a structural beam together? No. Does "stale" 7018 run as nice as properly stored rod? No. Would I want to take a 3g test with stale rod? Definitely no!

                                If you take the code work vs. non-code work argument out of the equation, 7018's just plain run better when they're hot. Smoother starts, more consistent bead. It's a much more user-friendly rod when you keep it like it was meant to be kept - hot and dry. I'll always use rod fresh out of the oven before I'll use fresh out of the package (dry, but room temp). The combo of identical rod, identical brand, identical operating temp, identical amp range, identical welder, and identical weldor will result in extremely *predictable and consistent* welds. It takes a while to achieve that kind of weld quality and once you find it, you'll probably want to stick with it (pun intended). You'll never get consistent results with old/stale 7018 because it's an unpredictable variable. Consistency is everything.

                                That's my 2 cents on it.
                                That about sums it up

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