Used American vs. new Chinese?

[Fallon]

I've been researching & looking for a decent AC/DC TIG hobby machine for a little while. I did a bit of TIG over a decade ago before I ran around overseas for a decade. It's not going to see much more than an occasional weekend or 2 a month of use.

I believe in getting quality. Even if it costs you a significant bit more in the short run, it usually pays off in the long run. I'm just having a hard time rationalizing a used American (Miller/Lincoln machine costing double a new Chinese made one. Is it going to be that much better for occasional hobby use getting a used American machine?

My budget is about a grand & I've more or less figured I'll be getting a used machine.

I'd love to get a Dynasty 200, but after months of searching Craigslist & Flea-Bay, I really haven't seen anything significantly under $2k. I'd like something more than a Diversion (haven't really seen any used anywhere either), and that's almost in my price range. That leaves me with tracking down an old SyncroWave or looking at some new Chinese machine.

I'd much rather have an inverter based machine due to the tiny amount of garage space I have for my garage/shop.

Do you guys have any thoughts? Not looking to start a flame war or anything, just looking for input to help figure things out.

Devin

[Mountain Metal]

The problem with the chinese equipment is well, It's chinese !! You will be surely dissapointed. Buy Harbor Freight clamps and magnets but save yourself the pain of the having to go out and buy good equipment after you have spent money on something that no one knows how to fix or obtain parts for.

Buy an old Miller or Lincoln and be done with it. The Diversion is a good value for for a new machine.


My .02

[kcstott]

For one How much power do you have in the garage available to power your welder and what voltage?
This will be a big factor in selecting a machine.
No not know what you have in term of volts and amps available to you I'll give you a starting point.

First would be a used Econo tig. Not a great machine but for what you are talking in amount of use it would be fine. A used one should be less then a grand.
Pro's: Basic machine with AC for aluminum welding decent amperage range 140 to 160 amps depending on how old the machine is
Cons: Draws a lot of power need a 50 Amp breaker of 220VAC to get the full potential from the machine, It's heavy and has no wheels so you would need a cart. No balance, dig, or pulse control. No post flow timer adjustment.

Next would be a Syncrowave 180 or 200
Pros: Nearly a professional level machine, High frequency start. Balance control and adjustable post flow timers.
Con's: Again pulls a lot of power, Both will require a 50 amp breaker of 220 VAC. Big and heavy like over 200 lb. Not a full function machine but a far cry from an Econo tig but it's a far cry from a Dynasty too.

All I can say about the chinese machine is BEWARE!!
Yes you can get a great machine for the money with some good features but when that machine (especially the inverter machines) takes a dive then what? What you are paying for is the ability to get you machine fixed should something break or fail.
I know guys that have had Riland machines for years with no problems and others that have had them die a few days after getting it. I was looking at either and HTP machine or an Invertiweld, And they are the only ones I'd recommened for getting an off brand inverter based welder because both offer good warrantees.

Other then that save and get a good machine you'll be glad you did. I'm very happy with my Syncrawave I just wish I'd got a 250 instead of the 200

[Fallon]

I put in a [email protected] 220v plug in last month for my table saw (16 year old Delta Unisaw which was better/cheaper than something new). I'll be dropping a 15' run of 6 gauge & appropriate [email protected] breaker & socket whenever I get motivated (probably whenever I get the welder). Anything standard 1 phase shouldn't be a problem.

I've more or less written off the Econotig as everything I've seen on them is about the same price as a new Diversion & has a really low duty cycle (to bad it's based on 10 minutes, and not day or months :-p).

[Desertrider33]

I'll add to the list of old machines the big tanks. You can run them at partial power on 50 amps. To get the full ouput, you'll need 100 amps.

Miller Dialarc HF
Miller Syncrowave
Miller 330a/bp
Lincoln Idealarc 300/300
Hobart, Airco and Linde tigs of the same behemoth era.

You can usually pick these machines up cheap and there very likely to be in good working condition no matter how old they are. It's tough to kill one of these beasts. Even if it's already 30 years old when you get it, it'll last you another 30 years for your own use and probly still be working after you're dead and gone.

[Bodybagger]

Is it going to be that much better for occasional hobby use getting a used American machine?

A definite yes.

[Sonora Iron]

I put in a [email protected] 220v plug in last month for my table saw (16 year old Delta Unisaw which was better/cheaper than something new). I'll be dropping a 15' run of 6 gauge & appropriate [email protected] breaker & socket whenever I get motivated (probably whenever I get the welder). Anything standard 1 phase shouldn't be a problem.

I've more or less written off the Econotig as everything I've seen on them is about the same price as a new Diversion & has a really low duty cycle (to bad it's based on 10 minutes, and not day or months :-p).

I'll add to the list of old machines the big tanks. You can run them at partial power on 50 amps. To get the full ouput, you'll need 100 amps.

Miller Dialarc HF
Miller Syncrowave
Miller 330a/bp
Lincoln Idealarc 300/300
Hobart, Airco and Linde tigs of the same behemoth era.

You can usually pick these machines up cheap and there very likely to be in good working condition no matter how old they are. It's tough to kill one of these beasts. Even if it's already 30 years old when you get it, it'll last you another 30 years for your own use and probly still be working after you're dead and gone.

If you can possibly swing more input power, I see Lincoln Idealarc’s and Miller 330 a/bp go in the 300 to 500$ range all the time. Just a few weeks ago there was an ad in the local paper for a Miller 330 a/bp “come and get it, just haul it away”.

[MMW]

Don't forget about the Lincoln Tig 175 or 185. These are good machines equal to the syncro 180/200.

[Blondie_486]

I opted for used American myself, I never even considered a chinese welder when looking for one. You could try a local industrial surplus dealer in your area. I bought my Miller 340A/BP for 300.00. Yeah it's a heavy old machine but it welds very well. You can always pick up a used Lincoln 300 Stick/TIG for around the same price. I wouldn't buy a welder off e-bay unless it's close enough to check out before you bid on it. Another thing you want to do with any of the used machines is to check and make sure the serial number corresponds with the machine the seller is offering and perhaps even the local law enforcement agency to check if it is a stolen unit.

Lately with the flood of chinese tools hitting the U.S. market I've been very careful of what I buy in the way of tools. I personally have opted to buy used American made rather than new chinese whenever possible. However with some of the newer technology tools and equipment it isn't always possible.

Weigh your options carefully and decide what is best for you. Keep in mind as others have said with the import machines service and parts availability might be scarce to non-existent. Although my Miller machines are approaching 40 years old I can still find both parts and service for them.

Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase.

[Blondie_486]

Just a few weeks ago there was an ad in the local paper for a Miller 330 a/bp “come and get it, just haul it away”.

Where was that unit when I was looking for a stick/TIG machine? Just my luck. I've seen them on e-bay both Miller and Airco for 50 to 100 just to get rid of them, but always too far away to make it worthwhile.

[Tryagn5]

No hurry....

Don't forget about the Lincoln Tig 175 or 185. These are good machines equal to the syncro 180/200.

I dont think you are in a hurry so take your time and buy all means buy american. There was a video on U tube of a gentleman smashing a chinese made tig welder. They are junk, poorly made, and enjoy getting parts! If you follow craigslist, and keep up on it, you can easily make your budget. I bought my lincoln precison tig for 800 bucks, it was nearly new. Dont rush into a decision just to have a machine collecting dust!
Kevin

[TripleTrophy]

If you need AC TIG that restricts you somewhat. After 5 months of looking for a used AC TIG machine (in Canada, admittedly), I ended up buying a Diversion. If you don't want to do aluminum, consider the Maxstar line.

[CRETE4U]

I was in the same position a few months ago. I wound up getting a Lincoln Precision Tig 185 and I'm very happy with it.

[waho6o9]

looks like p&h with water cooler. Good luck

tig welder works 650$ call me 818-522-7447
$650
Craigslist, the owner says it works. Any questions let me know. Good luck.

[Badd00SS]

Where are you located? I might sell my water cooled syncrowave 250, Its a big machine though.... size and power wise...