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  • mud tank piping question

    got a question for ya guys. apparently on mud tanks my boss believes that there is no pressure in the piping, its flow only... i have done a lot of pipe work before but nevere have i heard that this pipintheg has no pressure. mind you there are 6 mission pumps pumping all this piping. should this all be at least all welded out and built to at least the pop off valves on the pumps...

    i belive this is wrong but just wanting to get some other opinions
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  • #2
    No pressure??? ............... Really?

    If you have a pump moving fluid without restrictions to an open discharge - then you would have flow only, and no (or minimal) pressure, but as soon as you introduce any form of restrictions (valving, eccentric reducers, bushings, elbows, camlocks - even vertical runs etc), you are going to build pressure.

    What does your Boss think is going to happen if one of those pumps is humming at full volume, and the main valve after the pump gets closed?

    Where I work, I repair Pre-Mix Tanks, Floc Tanks, Flare Tanks, Auger Tanks, Polymer Tanks, along with all kinds of Pumps and Centrifuges every day....

    Right now, the push is on, and business is good.

    Hopefully it is the same on your end.
    Later,
    Jason

    Professional Spark Generator by Trade.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by arc View Post
      my boss believes that there is no pressure in the piping, its flow only...
      He must have been sick the day they taught fluid mechanics.

      Seriously, is there some kind of an unwritten rule that higher education bars you from stepping into a pair of workboots and breaking a sweat... and stepping into a pair of workboots and breaking a sweat forever absolves you from the further pursuit of knowledge?

      The people that say "you'll never have any use for that math and science" need their teeth knocked right out of their slack-jowled mouths.

      80% of failures are from 20% of causes
      Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
      "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
      "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
      "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

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      • #4
        No pressure huh?

        Must be gravity feed because its hard to get flow without any pressure or gravity.
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        • #5
          thats what i tried to tell him but you know the drill " i have been doing this for years and never had a problem what the **** do you know!"

          i tried to get him to explain that the heck is going to push that fluid up 6 feet and over 120 feet into different tanks with reducers, valves, and everything else

          buy the way its a 6" sch 20 system all down hand mig root, fill, and cap..... tried to do it some what of the right way being a pressure welder myself but that only lasted till he decided i had no idea what i was talking about coming from a guy that really has no pipe experience... ah got to love retard bosses

          ill see if i can get a pic of the system to post be for warned it is fugly...
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          • #6
            Originally posted by arc View Post
            thats what i tried to tell him but you know the drill " i have been doing this for years and never had a problem what the **** do you know!"

            i tried to get him to explain that the heck is going to push that fluid up 6 feet and over 120 feet into different tanks with reducers, valves, and everything else

            buy the way its a 6" sch 20 system all down hand mig root, fill, and cap..... tried to do it some what of the right way being a pressure welder myself but that only lasted till he decided i had no idea what i was talking about coming from a guy that really has no pipe experience... ah got to love retard bosses

            ill see if i can get a pic of the system to post be for warned it is fugly...
            Wow, just wow. I love the "I've been doing it this way for a thousand years" line. All I can say is it's been wrong then for a thousand years.

            Apply the math, the data wins.

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            • #7
              These mission pumps? Are they reciprocating pumps? centrifugal pumps? diaphragm pumps?
              All these pumps will build slight pressure on the discharge side to move the fluids they are pumping.
              I'd prefer to tig that sch 20 6" pipe myself, no question. A thin wall pipe like that will take no time at all to tig weld.
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              • #8
                they are centrifugal pumps and yeah id like to tig them too or run some rod on it but no all down hand mig... if hes not around i roll it at least to get a little more penetration but co2 "mig" just sucks all round (Cold lap is a little to easy with .045 wire)..... ah got to love it when it slows down and all of a sudden your opinion in the shop means sweet **** all.
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                • #9
                  3 passes for this thin pipe?

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                  • #10
                    This is my thread to pick on this morning. We see one side of this story to start with. We could look at the mechanical side, take a air tank, 300# test pressure 2 foot across, wall thickness of 10 ga. 1000's of pounds of stored energy. Now, a a fluid pipe, 6 inches with few # of operating pressure and even if you dead head it the point is moot, I got 065 wall alum with water at 150# and if I was building the thing to some extent I dont care if they gotta call a welder for a broken or leaky pipe years down the road.
                    Your boss might be giving you a gift, you got 3 tries to get around this so it don't leak with a wire feeder, no chip, no slag, how easy can it get?
                    Personally I would do a couple, if I could improve or speed it I would, tig has its place but not here, really competent welders can do service able work in a pass.
                    2 1/4 plates overhead, no joint prep. I probably wouldn't even bother beveling, granted this is 6011 with a buzz box it would be even easier with a wire feed, run a bead around it and it good for a thousand pounds.
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                    • #11
                      reggie could have never said it better, if you really have no idea what you are talking about dont try to make your self sound like you do just ask...
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                      • #12
                        I was taking the perspective of a pusher trying to get a job done, maybe the same way this guys boss looks at it. Not every piece of pipe needs to be welded to nuke specs, it needs to keep the mud on the inside. I knew I would catch a rash of **** when I posted it but maybe someone thinks they got better things to do than watch a bunch of prima's standing around twirling a tig when a bead around the thing to keep the water from leaking out will do. The pic wasn't meant to be a thing of beauty but to give idea that not every weld in the world needs 3 or 4 spins around it. Lots of it needs to be good enough to take the service and not leak. Remember,,, lots of the guys with lots of papers are only average too.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sberry View Post
                          I was taking the perspective of a pusher trying to get a job done, maybe the same way this guys boss looks at it. Not every piece of pipe needs to be welded to nuke specs, it needs to keep the mud on the inside. I knew I would catch a rash of **** when I posted it but maybe someone thinks they got better things to do than watch a bunch of prima's standing around twirling a tig when a bead around the thing to keep the water from leaking out will do. The pic wasn't meant to be a thing of beauty but to give idea that not every weld in the world needs 3 or 4 spins around it. Lots of it needs to be good enough to take the service and not leak. Remember,,, lots of the guys with lots of papers are only average too.

                          no offence to anyone but alot of the guys on here like to overkill it... by ALOT. what you said is perfect it doesnt need to be welded to nuke specs just need to do its job. alot a **** is overkilled.
                          Last edited by brendan_h; 12-06-2009, 04:14 AM.

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                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=Sberry;216052]This is my thread to pick on this morning. We see one side of this story to start with. We could look at the mechanical side, take a air tank, 300# test pressure 2 foot across, wall thickness of 10 ga. 1000's of pounds of stored energy. Now, a a fluid pipe, 6 inches with few # of operating pressure and even if you dead head it the point is moot, I got 065 wall alum with water at 150# and if I was building the thing to some extent I dont care if they gotta call a welder for a broken or leaky pipe years down the road.
                            Your boss might be giving you a gift, you got 3 tries to get around this so it don't leak with a wire feeder, no chip, no slag, how easy can it get?
                            Personally I would do a couple, if I could improve or speed it I would, tig has its place but not here, really competent welders can do service able work in a pass.
                            2 1/4 plates overhead, no joint prep. I probably wouldn't even bother beveling, granted this is 6011 with a buzz box it would be even easier with a wire feed, run a bead around it and it good for a thousand pounds.[/Q

                            The post and the picture are both advocates of a lack of craftsmanship. As welders the work always needs to be well done. Good enough is not the ticket. Good is what to strive for.

                            Byron

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                            • #15
                              I can see where my take on this can be misinterpreted but here goes. As for that pic, probably its older and at that time I rarely picked up a rod for several years as our shop work is mostly mig but that plate was in response to someone asking on how to do an overhead of this type. I don't stock beveled plates so I clamp that to the edge of a bench, lean over and run it and if you had chance to look at the back you would find it fully penetrated. I didn't sit under it to get the perfect view or even position and didn't get my knees dirty rolling on the floor.
                              There are certainly guys that do it better than I can, and they should considering the practice they get and there are basic surface imperfections but none critical enough to keep this plate from having fluid from being forced thru it. It would take 1000's# or more to rupture this joint in a pipe, say 4 inch. You could back bend it with a sledge hammer run over it or try to pull it apart with a D6, for all practical purpose its as strong as the base. If I ran a couple in a row I could pretty it up a bit but for general work mostly acceptable even though it wouldn't pass critical inspection. Anyone think these mud pipes are tested, likely little or no inspection of any kind besides seeing if they will hold better than shelled corn?
                              While I am getting closer to being old timer I can still recall how I thought about things in my 20's, 30's, etc. When I first start it seem obvious that many of my bosses didn't know much but they didn't always tell me everything they knew, but I recall what a pain I must have been when I had that attitude so I am suspect to some extent and while its nice to get a soft shoulder to cry on here I got to wonder about the rest of the story to some extent.
                              I can even see myself making the same comment today that, "the line has no pressure on it" while that might be technically incorrect especially due to the 6 ft of head its not steam, hi pressure anything and I can take the boss perspective here. They are likely trying to get some production and a guy should be able to get it in 3 passes without losing any sleep over it with a feeder putting out over 200A on this thickness and while there might be some tendency to get cold lap with a feeder you got 2 more passes to make sure water or drilling mud cant seep thru it. Probably the main reason it isn't a rubber hose is some ruffnecks would brutalize it. To boot we have a man with "extensive" pressure pipe experience doing a job I could train a girl to do in short order.
                              So its basically a my boss don't know squat thread despite his decades of experience and likely someone above him putting him in that position and deciding on how they are gonna do this job. I know if I didn't like it and didn't feel right I would walk to somewhere they appreciate my obvious skill and put me on some work where I could prove my worth. I would really have to evaluate things though especially if I needed the paycheck, I might even be content to sit there with the little feeder running beads around this little pipe and I could almost bet if I did it decently no one would bother me.

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