Argh Sick.

[trhowesjr]

Alright this is the second time this is happened to me and hopefully someone can help. At work I was Mig welding aluminum and must of inhaled some aluminum oxide. I had 2 fans blowing the smoke away and I thought that was enough, but somehow its now in my lungs. I have a mild sore throat and I feel like I just smoked a carton of newports. Small cough, lungs feel "heavy". We have no venting systems at my work and I hate wearing a respirator. I know, I know.... I will now, but I didn't.

Anyone have advice on working this out of my system? Inhalers? Humidifier? Its horrible. Im sure the most likely response to this will be to wear a respirator next time, but I was hoping maybe there is a secret remedy.

Thanks in advance.

[WyoRoy]

I haven't the slightest clue on how well milk will work for aluminum oxide, but it is recommended for some fume fevers. Couldn't hurt and relatively cheap.

[Icarus]

Don't really know if there is much you can do but you definitely need to be wearing a respirator as you mentioned.

[c wagner]

Your lungs are full of argon, (ask me how I know ) that is why they feel heavy (argon is heavier than oxygen).
This will sound funny but lay on the floor and put your legs on an elevated surface (couch, chair, etc.). It will take awhile for your body to expel the argon but you usually feel close to normal within 24 hours.
Did you have the fans set up to blow through your area or suck the smoke out of the area? Set it up to suck, that way it won't blow your argon away, which causes you to turn up your flow meter.

[Frank Motoweld]

Argon poisoning!

Be careful how much you expose yourself to argon.A few years back,3 people died close to here from it.A welder was working in a ss vat for a cosmetic plant.He died from overexposure,his helper died trying to get him out of there and a lady security guard also died later in the hospital.She had also tried to help them out of the vat.Without blowing your gas coverage,you need to make shure YOU have AIR to breath,Frank

[Bob the Welder]

About the only way to get argon in your lungs short of sucking on the hose is to be working in a confined space. Argon is heavier than air and will displace oxygen.

A confined space is any place that has a restricted or limited means of entry or egress, is big enough to perform work in and is not designed for continuous human occupancy. Usually requires some source of ventilation and an O2 monitor to enter. A permit required confined space has additional dangers and requires a person dedicated to be a hole watch who may not "enter" (break the plane of entry) under ANY circumstances and requires constant atmospheric monitoring for O2 and other gases along with ventilation capable of X number of atmosphere changes per hour among other things. The hole watch has the duties of logging everyone in and out and must call for help if something happens that shouldn't, plus other duties. Just as Frank Motoweld said someone goes into help and they become victims in very short order. It happens time and time again all across the country.

If you do indeed have argon in your lungs it will feel like you can't breath, almost like "drowning in air". As said before, lay on the floor and raise your waist higher than your head, take a deep breath and exhale completely. Repeat until you feel better but be careful not to hyperventilate! Sounds stupid but it does work.

I don't weld aluminum very often but I would suspect you are reacting to the fumes in which case, yes, wear a respirator.

[Frank Motoweld]

Protection for your lungs

Wear a respirator with charcoal filters that pick up the organic fumes from aluminium welding,Frank

[enlpck]

Warning: long post

It isn't argon in your lungs. Argon is heavier than air, and is an asphyxiant, but it is not that much denser than air, and makes up about 1% of the air you breathe. In a confined space where it can collect, you can get a high enough concentration to hurt you, but te first indication is intoxication (from low oxygen) followed quickly by unconsciousness, followed by death if you arn't moved to fresh air quickly.

A couple deep breaths in clear air will dilute it out. (breathing is triggered by carbon dioxide. Argon displaces this from the lungs when you breathe, so breathing feels normal. CO2 from you blood diffuses into the lungs, you exhale and inhale, and all feels ok until the O2 level in your blood drops to the point where you pass out. most people don't notice the intoxication until they are too impaired to do anything about it)

Argon will not give you a sore throat.

Things that will include: ozone (produced by arc welding processes), particulates (produced by MIG, fluxcore, stick, etc, but generally not by TIG), and assorted vapors from contaminates. My first guess would be ozone, followed by particulates. If the aluminum was cleaned with a solvent and residue was present, this could also be an issue. If the Al alloy or filler, or a coating, contains zinc, cadmium, lead, or a variety of other materials, a reaction is quite likely, and may indicate long term health hazards.

You will not have organic fumes from aluminum welding unless there are organic residues (grease, cleaner residue, etc) on the material or organic fluxes in use.

Check the MSDS for the materials (base metals and fillers). If they are not on hand and available to you, your employer is in violation of the law, and WILL be fined (if there is any problem, be sure that you have a witness when you request to see the MSDS's).

You should have been informed of all of this in your annual (on at time of hire if you have worked there less than a year) "right to know" notification. If there is a major problem, you are protected under federal law, and most states, as well, from repercussions if you report it, but I would expect to be looking for a job soon. The general approach here is NON-CONFRONTATIONAL, since no one wants to get in a situation where they need whistle-blower protection.

The BEST solution is collection at the source. In a commercial environment in the US, the law (See 29CFR1910, AKA OSHA1910) is that you SHALL NOT be exposed to harmful levels of fume, and the employer MUST control the exposure. Negative physical effect is an indicator that you have been exposed to harmful levels, even if monitoring does not indicate levels above the legal threshold for a regulated substance.

The regulation states that engineering controls are the first step. Collection at the source is the preferred method. Ventilation is a must (source of fresh air), and if not sufficient, fume extraction device is step one, and isn't hard to implement. It is relative cheap as well. Commercial units with HEPA filters do well and are energy efficient, and run in the ballpark of $500 to $1000 per head, depending on the installation. Exhaust units with pickup hoses can be cheaper, but may not be permissible without filter, depending on what the fume is (chromium containing fume, beryllium containing fume, lead, cadmium, etc, all need to be collected)

If collection and ventillation (engineering controls) are not sufficient or are not practical (site work, nature of non-routine work in a shop, etc), then a breather is indicated, but the requirements make it undesirable. To insure protection for you, the nature of the nature of the hazard must be identified, an appropriate breather should be selected, and a fit test is required to insure that the proper protection will be provided for YOU. In your case, the most likely need will be particulate protection (again, unless there are solvents in use that leave residue-though that can usually be controlled with procedural methods or engineering controls, or specific chemical components such as beryllium, chromium, or cadmium with special requirements). Note that there are no approved respirators that will be acceptable with a full beard, and most limit facial hair. (There are mouthpiece/nose plug units available, but, to my knowledge, none meet MSHA requirements or other accepted standards for general industry. I'd love to find one that does so I wouldn't need to shave every time I need a respirator)

Again, about the only thing I can guarantee (since you are at the computer typing away) is that you were most likely NOT harmed by argon. Fume collection and ventilation are the starting point (it can be done such that shielding isn't effected with MIG), followed by respirators.

[trhowesjr]

I have never heard of anything harmful about argon.... wow. I do work in a confined space with curtains surrounding me so ill keep that in mind. It doesnt help that I sit for most of the day with plenty of argon flowing due to the locations and angles I have to weld the ss hinges I weld everyday.

I did have one fan to suck the smoke away and another about 5 feet back blowing to the side just to keep air moving. When I weld these aluminum brackets I have to be almost on top of them because of the angle/distance and its a curved. It also doesnt help that the pieces are diffrent in thickness. There a pain in my A$$.

I work in a dump. Its horrible, but the job situation is tough in Detroit and this company is ruthless. So one of the guys called osha on them because of the dangerous work enviroment so they came in and havent went over 1/4 of the shop and already have 4 pages in fines. The owner is such a **** and was mad someone called so is threating they will take the christmas bonus out..... Im dont even want to talk about it.

Thanks a lot guys.

[kcstott]

Ok we need a definition of a confined space as OSHA sees it.
One a Confined space is not just a bad stop in your shop that creates a corner or dead end that is cramped.
That is just poor lay out of the shop.
Most of the time a confined space is a tank or tube with walls higher then four feet. this allows gases to build up and can create an atmosphere that is not suitable to your health.
as per osha 1910.146b

"Confined space" means a space that:

(1) Is large enough and so configured that an employee can bodily enter and perform assigned work; and

(2) Has limited or restricted means for entry or exit (for example, tanks, vessels, silos, storage bins, hoppers, vaults, and pits are spaces that may have limited means of entry.); and

(3) Is not designed for continuous employee occupancy.

So as you can see this is not your crappy location at the shop.

[davedarragh]

I work in a dump. Its horrible, but the job situation is tough in Detroit and this company is ruthless. So one of the guys called osha on them because of the dangerous work enviroment so they came in and havent went over 1/4 of the shop and already have 4 pages in fines. The owner is such a **** and was mad someone called so is threating they will take the christmas bonus out..... Im dont even want to talk about it.

Thanks a lot guys.

Have your boss keep the Xmas bonus and make the workplace safe. If this is a Union shop, health and safety shouldn't be an issue.

If you're working non-Union, and interested in organizing, send me a PM, and I'll point you in the proper directions. The Detroit Teamsters would be glad to represent your shop.

Dave

[Hardrock40]

My throat got sore last night while welding. Seems it was sinuses all of a sudden draining with a terrible burn in my throat. This happened really quick.

I came in, hit the shower and went to bed but it got worse and was bad all day.

But right now it is almost completely gone. About twenty-four hours later. Wouldn't make sense but yesterday I was on aluminum and then stainless when I got sickly. Today I was welding magnesium when I started feeling better.

Go figure, probably had nothing to do with welding. But if I find out it did, I'll have a dose of magnesium smoke regularly.

[fjk]

Not trying to jump on the over-hyped-super-hysteria-the-world-is-ending
bandwagon, but Swine Flu? My wife is a RN, she says that light cases
can show up with minor symptoms -- maybe just a sore throat,
maybe just feeling a bit off -- that don't make you think it's
the flu.

Anyway, hope you guys are all ok.
Frank

[kcstott]

I
I work in a dump. Its horrible, but the job situation is tough in Detroit and this company is ruthless. So one of the guys called osha on them because of the dangerous work enviroment so they came in and havent went over 1/4 of the shop and already have 4 pages in fines. The owner is such a **** and was mad someone called so is threating they will take the christmas bonus out..... Im dont even want to talk about it.

Thanks a lot guys.

Work there just long enough to find another job. Get the **** out of there as soon as you can.
Obviously if he runs a dump with four pages of osha wright ups He'll only changes his ways long enough to get osha off his back then right back to business as usual
I've worked in shops like that. And got the **** out of there as fast as I could.

[stretch]

My parents have the H1N1 virous and your symptomes sound like what they have, but if its gone now no big deal.