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  • How to pay for a tig?

    If everyone here would send me a couple of dollars, it would be easy! Ok, that is not really what I mean. I can write the check, but I can't justify it. I am a commercial remodel contractor. I have used all of my equipment from time to time on projects and have earned enough with it to justify the purchase. Although my equipment is idle much more than it is used.

    Ok, I want a tig machine, I don't need one. I am sure that there are some projects that I can do with a tig that I currently do not do, but I am not sure what they would be. I am not looking to hire out my services, just incorporate tig welding into what I already do. Any time I have needed anything tig welded, I just hire it out, what I have spent to date would not even buy the accessories for a machine. We just did a bar and put up a bunch of al tread plate. I could have welded the butt joints together for a great look, but the owners already had sticker shock over the price of the tread plate.

    Anyone have any examples of how a tig machine will benefit a general contractor that self performs a lot of his own work?

    I have really enjoyed reading the threads regarding selecting a tig machine, and I have learned a lot, THANKS! I am decided between a Dynasty 200dx and a Syncrowave 200. The Dynasty is more machine than I need, but I can see where I might want the portability, and the only regret I have ever had when purchasing equipment is not spending the extra to get the better unit.

    Thanks for any input,

    Jim

    350P
    Dynasty 200dx
    Millermatic 250X
    Passport Plus
    Hypertherm 900 W/RT60
    Bobcat 225

  • #2
    I look at it this way. If you're going to think of every purchase like an accountant does, you'll never own anything for the fun of it. This is obviously something you don't NEED for your business, or you'd already own one and be proficient in it's use. In my business, it IS something I need, so I have to have it, whether I want it or not. I wanted it before I bought it though!

    It boils down to this. Doesn't look like you're going to be able to justify the purchase for business purposes, you've already gone over the evidence yourself and mentioned it above. The numbers don't work out for you, so you have to look at it as a personal purchase. Either you want one or you don't. If you want it and you got the money and can afford to spend it, buy it. If not, keep saving, or keep dreaming. If you don't want it, don't buy it. It really is that simple.
    Millermatic350P/Python, MillermaticReach/Q300
    Millermatic175
    MillermaticPassport/Q300
    HTP MIG200
    PowCon 300SM, MK Cobramatic
    ThermalArc 185ACDC, Dynaflux Tig'r, CK-20
    DialarcHF, Radiator-1
    Hypertherm PowerMax 380
    Purox oxy/ace
    Jackson EQC
    -F350 CrewCab 4x4
    -LoadNGo utility bed
    -Bobcat 250NT
    -PassportPlus/Q300
    -XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic15A
    -Suitcase8RC/Q400
    -Suitcase12RC/Q300
    -Smith oxy/propane
    -Jackson EQC

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    • #3
      Sorry Topper.......
      I cannot help you out with justifying the purchase of a Dynasty and relate it to your work. Obviously you cannot either.

      So I suggest you compromise. You have worked hard and deserve a gift for your labor and efforts. Award yourself an early Christmas present and forget about 'justifying' the purchase. That takes a lot of the fun out of it. Just get the welder and use it when you want and for what you want.
      If you wait until you are old or planted in the ground then you have waited too long.
      My 2¢ anyway..................pg
      Dynasty 200 DX_set up on 3 phase
      Coolmate 3
      MM 251 w/ Spoolmatic 30A
      HTP 625 Micro Cut Plasma Cutter
      Victor O/A Rig
      Bridgeport Mill_3 phase (w/ Acu-Rite 4 axis DRO)
      10 inch South Bend Lathe_3 phase
      Baldor Double Cup Tool Grinder_3 phase
      Baldor 10 inch Buffer
      Rockwell 12 inch Disc Sander
      Cyclone 2ft X 3ft Bead Blast Cabinet
      Quincy 325 2stg- Air Compressor_3 phase
      Graymills Built-in Parts Washer
      Rockwell/Delta Planer, HD Shaper, Uni-Saw etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        I bought a TIG a few years ago. I have a sign shop. Not a lot of welding to do in my line of sign work, but I do use it occasionally to make a sign frame, or such. I used it to make attachments for my track loader (sign related) and to make the racks to hold all the attachment on the trailer. Once you have one, you'll be surprised how often you can think up things to use it for.

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        • #5
          I second (third?) that you don't see a way to justify the machine financially at this point. But, if you want it and can afford it, you will find ways to make it pay, in part, for itself, if you accept that the payoff may take a long time and may never be complete.

          Some things that TIG can do for you as a contractor (off the top of my head), with practice. many tasks are not going to come without a lot of work.

          Making an repairing tools for special jobs

          making and modifying stainless (and aluminum with ac) decorative features, such as mount points for stainless kitchen fixtures or stainless backsplashes

          Solderless (for color match) copperwork (gutters, flashing, kitchens, etc)

          TIG brazing

          Railings (repair in place, assembly with clean cosmetics, etc)

          And so on...... Lots of uses will turn up. A very useful aspect, with a portable setup, is the ability to do welding in places where other processes are too messy, make too much smoke, or have too high a fire risk. There is still a risk of fire, obviously, but it is much lower than with stick or MIG due to the lack of spatter and slag.

          When I bought my machine, I figured it would never pay for itself. Plenty of machine capacity at work, and I do little on my own. It paid for itself in a few months with only a couple of jobs (one stick job and a couple TIG jobs), all of which were straightforward on site, but would have been quite expensive to do off site.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm with the last poster , my Dynasty paid for half of it's self on one job. It was a simple structural job that I stick welded.
            Dynasty 200DX "Blue Lightning"
            Bernard 3500ss water-cooler
            Rockwell vertical mill
            Beverly Shear B-3
            Beverly Shear JR
            Home-made English wheel
            Milwaukee Porta-band
            " Sawz-all
            Tennsmith 36" stomp shear
            Fixer upper 1968 Redface Lincoln sa200
            Powcon 300st

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            • #7
              I agree. My Dynasty paid for itself in one month flat.
              For a contracter I would think the stick ability would be very handy.
              This machine is amazing with what it can do on 120v. It can run 7018 1/8th" and smaller and It can tig aluminum like crazy. It can do stainless or steel very well on this voltage.
              You can carry it into a spot that you would more than likely just find some other method of doing the job.
              I would also question one statement you made as well.....that the Dynasty is more welder than you need....the syncrowave is more welder than you need...about 100+ lbs more!!!
              And it is a purchase that you can depreciate out on your taxes as well

              If you have even an inkling of creativity in you, and even a slight hankering to try something new, you would be cheating yourself of your destiny by not buying this machine if you can afford it.

              www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
              Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
              MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
              Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
              Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

              Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
              Miller 30-A Spoolgun
              Miller WC-115-A
              Miller Spectrum 300
              Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
              Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

              Comment


              • #8
                Dynasty or not?

                Jim,with a tool like a Dynasty 200dx,the funds you need to worry about are not the cost of the machine.The worry will come more from the money you'll be passing up if you dont have this thing.Like Fusion King said,this machine will open up a whole new dimention for you,Frank
                Millermatic 252
                Millermatic 180
                Dynasty 200DX
                Hobart spoolmate 3035
                Digital Elite

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would say, if you have time to take on welding jobs you can do, then you can justify it.

                  Let me clarify: I have a maxstar 200dx that I have done a great deal of welding with. Lately, I have been farming out all my metalwork, as I have been working on our house to get it ready to sell. Metal jobs take me a lot of time, usually twice as long as I estimate and I have to charge enough to make it worth it. So unless I have time, and I'm interested in doing the project, I farm out the work (and make a profit).

                  If you can afford to get a Dynasty, get it for your hobby welding or you can use it to make brackets, work tables, stick weld rebar, etc.
                  Miller Maxstar 200 DX
                  RMLS-14 Momentary Hand Control
                  Miller Syncrowave 180 SD
                  Porter Cable 14" dry metal saw
                  Hitachi 4.5" grinder
                  http://mhayesdesign.com

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                  • #10
                    I was tool crazy all my working career, all of them I have gotten have found work sooner or later. The last twenty years I have made a living with them. I would buy something then take on enough work to pay for the original investment. I am getting old now and am retired, but I buy a new tool now and then still.......
                    mike sr

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                    • #11
                      I wanted a TIG welder all my life, and now that I turned 65 I finally broke down and bought one. I'm stupid for putting it off until now. Pure fun for me, I just look for things to make. No justification, just fun and a real sense of accomplishment when I make a good weld.
                      CGum
                      Old Miller Swinger 180 Buzzbox
                      Miller Diversion 165
                      1945 Craftsman Atlas Lathe
                      Smithy Lathe/Mill

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chewinggum View Post
                        I wanted a TIG welder all my life, and now that I turned 65 I finally broke down and bought one. I'm stupid for putting it off until now. Pure fun for me, I just look for things to make. No justification, just fun and a real sense of accomplishment when I make a good weld.
                        CGum

                        I have been a tig welder most of my adult life and I just bought one after I retired with all the bells and whistles, wish I had gotten it while I was still working!! I sure enjoy it now though....
                        mike sr

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by chewinggum View Post
                          I wanted a TIG welder all my life, and now that I turned 65 I finally broke down and bought one. I'm stupid for putting it off until now. Pure fun for me, I just look for things to make. No justification, just fun and a real sense of accomplishment when I make a good weld.
                          CGum
                          Originally posted by popspipes View Post
                          I have been a tig welder most of my adult life and I just bought one after I retired with all the bells and whistles, wish I had gotten it while I was still working!! I sure enjoy it now though....
                          HAHAHA!!!
                          I live in an area where there is a lot of aluminum welding done in factories.
                          We have boat builders(5+) and ambulances and fire trucks and Modine has a plant as well.
                          I am in my own biz as most of you well know. I am continually amazed that with all these guys out there all around me, with so much talent virtually none of them will venture out and weld on their own. Lucky for me
                          Part of it I believe is because when something new comes along like the Dynasty, almost every one of those guys finds a reason not to like it.
                          The future is now. Miller, Lincoln and Esab will continue to make transformer machines as long as they can sell them.
                          I think it is funny tho that in light of these 2 posts I have quoted, I sold my old Airco to a guy about 2 weeks after he also retired.
                          He was a hard working fellow, that could have given me a run for my money, had he ever only wanted to. I know because he was my shop foreman 30 years ago. I am glad he didn't.
                          For you guys on the fence.....What are you waiting for???

                          www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                          Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                          MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                          Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                          Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                          Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                          Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                          Miller WC-115-A
                          Miller Spectrum 300
                          Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                          Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the replies, I think you just pushed me off of the fence, I take it as a friendly nudge.

                            I should search the forum, but since you all have been so helpful, a quick question, hand or foot control? My LWS is pushing me towards the hand control since I do not know the foot control already. He feels that I might as well learn and embrace it. Once I spend the money on the machine, gas, ect. I don't have a problem adding accessories as needed. Should I learn and stick with one method or learn both?

                            Thanks,

                            Jim

                            350P
                            Dynasty 200dx
                            Millermatic 250X
                            Passport Plus
                            Hypertherm 900 W/RT60
                            Bobcat 225

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, the first thing is the purchase of the machine of course. It comes several ways.......
                              machine only is the lowest initial price. Then you will have to add a torch.

                              The other option is to buy the machine and the torch as a unit. Do the math to see which is less expensive, if there is any difference.
                              You may be able to get by with an air cooled torch. That will save some money on getting a cooler.

                              As for foot control or hand control...... I have both. There are times when I weld on a structural assembly off the ground when the hand control is the only reasonable thing to have.
                              Most of the time I use the foot control however. I find it easier to use (for me) than the hand control, but then I am accustomed to the foot control.

                              I would suggest getting a foot control and adding a hand control later if/when you need it.
                              Again, this is nothing but my 2¢ talking..........pg

                              Originally posted by Topper View Post
                              Thanks for the replies, I think you just pushed me off of the fence, I take it as a friendly nudge.

                              I should search the forum, but since you all have been so helpful, a quick question, hand or foot control? My LWS is pushing me towards the hand control since I do not know the foot control already. He feels that I might as well learn and embrace it. Once I spend the money on the machine, gas, ect. I don't have a problem adding accessories as needed. Should I learn and stick with one method or learn both?

                              Thanks,
                              Dynasty 200 DX_set up on 3 phase
                              Coolmate 3
                              MM 251 w/ Spoolmatic 30A
                              HTP 625 Micro Cut Plasma Cutter
                              Victor O/A Rig
                              Bridgeport Mill_3 phase (w/ Acu-Rite 4 axis DRO)
                              10 inch South Bend Lathe_3 phase
                              Baldor Double Cup Tool Grinder_3 phase
                              Baldor 10 inch Buffer
                              Rockwell 12 inch Disc Sander
                              Cyclone 2ft X 3ft Bead Blast Cabinet
                              Quincy 325 2stg- Air Compressor_3 phase
                              Graymills Built-in Parts Washer
                              Rockwell/Delta Planer, HD Shaper, Uni-Saw etc.

                              Comment

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