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Air Source Questions: Spectrum 625 and 375 Extreme.

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  • SundownIII
    replied
    Dave,

    Never used the Jancy so I can't comment directly. From all reports though, Jancy tends to produce quality tools.

    Like anything else thought, you seem to have to evaluate each tool on it's own merits. In the past, say, if you bought a Milwaukee tool you could be pretty sure you're getting an industrial product. Now I don't think that's the case.

    For instance, I've got the new Milwaukee Portaband, the Milwaukee Metal Cut Saw, the Milwaukee Hole Hawg drill, all of which are top grade tools. I also have a Milwaukee hammer drill that I don't think much off. It's got the name but not the same quality.

    Leave a comment:


  • davedarragh
    replied
    Dry Cut Saws

    Sundown: How about Jancy? Ever use one? They've got a 7" and a 9" metal cut saw and a 14" dry cut chop saw.

    Dave

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  • 59halfstep
    replied
    Bly PM sent.

    Charlie

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  • SundownIII
    replied
    DesertRider33/Bly

    I mentioned it before, but if there's an interest, I'd suggest you go to www.metaldevil.com and check out some of their videos on cutting different shapes of metals from plate to tubing to angle, etc.

    I hope no one thinks I'm trying to put plasma down. I'm not. Great machines and will do certain things that no other (readily available to the hobbiest/small shop owner) tool will do. Just that there are other options for certain applications.

    For instance, when cutting strips from plate (1/16" to 5/16") for coupons (when teaching new guys), I'll always use the saw vs the plasma. This applies to steel and especially with aluminum. I'll get a cleaner, truer, more weld ready cut, than with any other method.

    For stainless steel, it's a different story though. Here I'll fire up the plasma and go to town, knowing full well, that the edge is going to have to be ground before the coupon/piece can be welded up. Stainless is hard on circular blades as well as bandsaw blades.

    Since ol piniongear wouldn't take me up on my offer (I could always use a "spare" plasma), I thought you two may be interested in seeing these blades in action.

    Actually, with the Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, I get very little "flying hot schrads". Think it has to do with how the saw shields the blade. Only thing with the Milwaukee saw, is that it doesn't allow for a bevel cut (say 45 deg). The baseplate is fixed at 90 deg. Depth of cut is adjustable.

    A cheap skilsaw (I've used the cheap skil from Lowes) will allow for a bevel cut, but it does throw more slivers. Full face protection, leather gloves and apron are recommended. Still, it does a heck of a job. Yields a fast, clean, true cut.

    I'm not big on pictures, but the next time I fire the saws up, I'll shoot a couple of photos to show what I'm talking about.

    The Evolution brand of saws DR33 mentioned are marketed by M.K. Morse also but can be had for less from other retailers. Best place for locating the Metal Devil blades is on Amazon.com. Northern Tool sometimes has the blades but doesn't stock a very good selection. The Bullet Industries, 7 1/4" blade is a viable, lower cost, alternative. It's not as "heavy duty" as the Morse blades though. Works well in the smaller saws.

    Let us know what you think.

    Leave a comment:


  • piniongear
    replied
    Originally posted by reggie
    CHICKEN....
    Hi Reggie. I do love you!
    But you are really wasting your time trying to bait me
    . Ain't gonna work sweetheart......... pg

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  • piniongear
    replied
    I'll try to find time in the next couple of days to do a few cuts on 1/8" and 1/4" stock so you can see what I'm talking about. Clamp a piece of 2'x2" alum angle on the sheet, allowing a 1.5" standoff and cut sheet steel as clean as you'd cut a piece of 1/4" plywood. The cut compares with the cut you get with your Makita Dry Cut Saw.

    I am going to save you the trouble......Don't bother making any cuts. I am not interested.
    As long as you are happy with what you do that is great.
    Believe it or not, I have also spent a few years doing metal work and fabrication.

    So keep dodging the metal slivers the saw throws at you and I shall continue with plasma and a big grin on my chops thank you.......... pg

    Leave a comment:


  • Desertrider33
    replied
    Dang!

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  • SundownIII
    replied
    piniongear,

    LMAO,

    Your photos demonstrate exactly what I was talking about when using a plasma for a long straight cut vs a metal cut saw such as the 8" Milwaukee.

    I'll try to find time in the next couple of days to do a few cuts on 1/8" and 1/4" stock so you can see what I'm talking about. Clamp a piece of 2'x2" alum angle on the sheet, allowing a 1.5" standoff and cut sheet steel as clean as you'd cut a piece of 1/4" plywood. The cut compares with the cut you get with your Makita Dry Cut Saw.

    Add to that the fact that you get two (2) square edges (base material and the piece you cut) and you're ahead of the game. All plasma's (to include the Miller and Hypertherm units) have a good cut side and a not so good cut side. Just the nature of how the plasma exits the nozzle. Can't avoid it.

    Additionally, the slightest side to side movement of the plasma torch has a drastic effect on the angle of the cut. With the saw, you have a base plate which keeps the blade perpendicular to the base material.

    I say again (and I been dealing with metal for a little while), I can make a cleaner cut in 1/8" mild steel with a $49 skilsaw and a $10 Bullet metal cut blade, than you can with your $1000 plasma.

    Now, if you're a betting man, I'd put my Hypertherm 600 up against your plasma cutter. If I can't make a cleaner cut with the skilsaw, I'll send you my PM 600 freight included. If the saw makes a cleaner cut, you send me your plasma. We can decide on a few mutually acceptable judges. Right off the top, Fusion King seems to be an unbiased sort of guy. Maybe you can name a few that you'd find acceptable.

    How's that for putting your money where your mouth is.



    PS. If you'd rather do 1/4" vs the 1/8" that's fine too. Actually the difference is even more pronounced when dealing with 1/4" vs 1/8". Cut off a small section of 1/4" x 2" flat stock on your Makita. That's what the cut looks like for 3' when cut with a saw.


    Now, do you wish to discuss plasma cutting aluminum vs saw cut. Here's another area where the saw "blows the plasma away".
    Last edited by SundownIII; 08-28-2009, 05:26 PM.

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  • piniongear
    replied
    Man, i gotta strongly disagree with you there!
    The OP said he wants to cut steel plate up to 3 ft long as I recall. Correct me if I am wrong.........
    I use my plasma to this kind of cutting a lot. Pictured below is a piece of 1/4 inch thick steel cut with a plasma. The dross was not removed on the bottom side because what you are looking at is the 'fall off' piece that was not cleaned. A couple taps with a hammer gets off the dross and leaves an equally straight edge.



    The rusty edge is mill sheared and the other edge is as it came off the plasma. Both are equally straight
    ! There is no better way to make a straight cut of several feet than to use a plasma machine.
    If you are talking about curving cuts then the plasma again wins hands down.

    If you want to cut structural members and shapes then the nod goes to a carbide toothed blade saw such as my Makita LC1230........ pg






    Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
    Bly,

    Bottom line is you don't have enough air compressor to run "any" plasma.

    Nitrogen is an option, but not a really great one. Your question about using an 80 to feed a plasma leads me to question the logic of even buying a plasma at this time. Guys running plasma (mostly in the field) off a nitrogen bottle are using large bottles and it's because of practicality.

    Plasma cutters are not "at their best" at doing the cuts you sorta described anyway. As a "cut off tool" there are better options. Those include a dry cut saw, a smaller bandsaw, or even a good chop saw. I would definitely recommend one of these options before you bought a plasma.

    I have a large compressor and two plasma cutters (PM 600 & PM 1250) in the shop and they both get used quite a bit. However, I also have a DeWalt chop saw, a Porter-Cable dry cut saw, a Milwaukee portaband, a Milwaukee 8" metal cut saw, and a Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw. All these cutting tools get used about as much as the plasma. Oh yea, there's also the o/a torch.

    When it comes to cutting out "shapes/non straight edges", the plasma is the tool of choice. As a "cut off tool", plasma is down the list.

    What I'm basically saying is that there are a lot of options that will do the job you describe, for a lot less than a plasma. They may not be as "***y" as a plasma, but they do a good job.

    Leave a comment:


  • SundownIII
    replied
    Bly,

    The M.K. Morse blades I use on the 8" Milwaukee Metal Cut saw are as follows:

    All 8"

    CSM840SC 40 Tooth 5/8" Arbor Steel
    CSM868TSC 68 Tooth 5/8" Arbor Thin Steel
    CSM860AC 60 Tooth 5/8" Arbor Aluminum

    These are called the Morse Metal Devil Blades.

    This info can be found at www.mkmorse.com or www.metaldevil.com

    I also use their sawsall blades and their holesaw blades (for notching pipe)

    Leave a comment:


  • Desertrider33
    replied
    I just saw the Evolution Rage Saw 7-1/4" metal cutting circular saw. $160 msrp with blade. I have the Evolution Rage 3 metal cutting miter saw and I like it. Built very well. I might get that little circular saw to keep on the truck.

    http://www.evolutiononlineshop.com/E...age_Saws~x.cfm

    Leave a comment:


  • Bly
    replied
    Sundownhill,

    Would you happen to have the model #'s of the MK Morse blades you use? Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • SundownIII
    replied
    piniongear,

    Obviously, you've never seen the cut made by a Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, with a thin metal cut blade (comparable to a shear).

    In fact, a 4 1/2" grinder with a cutoff blade (in trained hands) does an excellent job. (comparable to a plasma but slower).

    A while back I had to cut a new face for a stainless steel refrigerator we had on a boat in the yard. With all the tools I had available (to include two plasma cutters), I went with the grinder and a cut off wheel. Sandwiched the edge to be cut between two pieces of 1"x1/8" aluminum angle (to pull heat away and not warp the stainless), and cut the SS with the grinder. Perfect cut with no blueing of the SS.

    Been cutting/forming metal for a "little while".

    Leave a comment:


  • SundownIII
    replied
    Bly,

    First, let me say that you've gotten some good advice here, and some advice that seems to come from posters who've never used the tools they're recommending. Guess it's up to you to decide who to listen to.

    As far as the compressors, non of the smaller units are recommended for sustained cutting. If you go back to my previous post I said that the PC may meet your "minimum" requirements. In other words, it'll provide the necessary air in a pinch.

    Can't comment on all the compressors. I have the PC that I mentioned and have been very happy with it (don't ask it to do too much). I have used it with my PM600 for short duration cuts. Just have to wait for it to build pressure back up. I've had excellent luck with Makita tools across the board. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a "bad" one. Got a couple of their sliding mitre saws, bout a half dozen drills, and half dozen grinders. Their 18v impact driver is the cat's meow. In other words, good tools.

    I've been less impressed with the DeWalt tools of late. Got a grinder (free) when I bought the chop saw. Neither tool has been outstanding. Chop saw is just OK, and the grinder runs rough and hot.

    It may just be me (spoiled by the cnc plasma cutting table at buddy's shop), but I've never been able to get a straight plasma cut (even with a guide) that compares to a saw cut in steel. When you go to aluminum, it's not even close. For SS, plasma is the tool of choice, since it just destroys a saw blade.

    Before I bought the Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw (similar to a skilsaw), I went to Lowes and bought a cheap skilsaw (about $50) along with the extended warranty ($5.00). Ordered a couple of the 7 1/4" Bullet metal cut blades and went to town cutting. Use a piece of 1"x1/8" angle as a guide. Did a good job on up to 1/4" plate. Biggest complaint was the flying slivers. Cut quite a bit of 1/8" and 1/4" material with that setup. Ironically, the saw still survives.

    The 8" Milwaukee is definitely a step up. Cleaner cut. More powerful (faster) and more blade options (thin cut steel, regular steel, aluminum). I get my blades from M.K. Morse. Not cheap but good/excellent quality. Last time I checked Lowes handles a Lennox 7 1/4" metal cut blade (about $50) that works well in both the skilsaw and the Milwaukee.

    Either of these two options (with a proper guide) will give you a cleaner/straighter/better edge cut than a hand held plasma. Anyone who tries to tell you different is "huffing and puffing".

    When it comes to aluminum, there's no comparison. A saw cut edge will blow a plasma cut edge away any day. I don't care if it's cut with a skilsaw, jig saw, sawsall, etc, they're all better than plasma. With the plasma cut, the edge still has to be ground to remove the oxides created by the heat of the cut (I normally use a carbide burr to trim the edge in curved cuts), whereas a saw cut is ready to weld (other than surface oxides).

    Thin stainless, I normally cut with a grinder and a cut off wheel. If the job is large or the material is thick, I take it to my buddy's shop and either shear it or cut it on the water jet.

    For mild steel angle, bar stock, etc. I normally either use the Porter Cable Dry Cut Saw or the Wilton bandsaw.

    For cutting SS angle, rounds, etc (cut off type jobs), I use the Wilton bs.

    The plasma cutters excell at making non-straight cuts in thicker material. Best tool I've found for making inside cuts (no way to get to them with a bandsaw for instance). I use them for making holes in thicker stock (motor mounts, support braces, etc) where drilling would be a pain. Here I generally use a pattern made from 1/8" aluminum stock. The 1250 is also an excellent tool for gouging out old welds. Lot more convenient than the torch.

    For "out of shop" work, I generally carry a chop saw, a grinder with a cut-off wheel, and a 18v sawsall (Makita). Gets the job done 95% of the time.

    Personally, I'd recommend talking to your LWS about setting up a demo on a plasma cutter. If that's not possible, ask if they have anyone you could talk to that could possibly show you how they operate. If you post up your location, there maybe a member close by who will speak up. If you're near VA, I'd be happy to set up a demo for you and let you "get a feel" for what they do best and don't do well. A good plasma cutter (the only type to have) is a major investment. You need to understand what they are capable of. They're great machines to have but not always the "best" option.

    For instance, I can't imagine trying to get a "clean cut" on an 1 1/2" SS boat shaft. I can sever it with the 80A machine (would look like a gopher chewing on a tree) but that's about it. On the other hand the bandsaw will lob off 1/16" thick slices like they were scalloped potatoes.

    Sorry for the book. Lots of options.

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  • piniongear
    replied
    To sum it all up, in your original post you said the need for a plasma was related to your hobby work.
    Your hobby is not going to give you much fun and pleasure if you find yourself struggling with trying to get a straight cut on some 1/16 inch steel.
    And, without a plasma, that is the best you can expect...... a struggle!

    So my suggestion is to save up and earmark the money needed to get this equipment, or perhaps find yourself another hobby. But, golf costs money too!
    pg

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