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  • #31
    Hey, I said what needed to be said. Want moddycodding, go to your government. Or read what every bleeding heart said on this thread. Want to be successful in business,,,, read my words.

    Being in business,,,, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE!!!! Yes, the rewards may be better (not necessarily monetary) ,,,, But, the risks, are always much bigger, and not necessarily avoidable.

    Some people, whether they are good at their job or not, just aren't cut out to be in business. So be it, accept it.

    If Finch was to continue, only way he could make it would be to be subsidized by his suppliers, subsidized by his bankers, subsidized by his government, and in the end, he'd probably loose his house and any other assets anyway. Who wins????? TELL ME!!!! He sure as **** ain't.

    43 year's experience???? Ironworker???? Surely he is, himself, also getting some kind of pension. If Mr. Finch wants to occupy his time, and get a little extra cash, why not flip burgers at Mcdonalds? or clean floors somewhere???? There's no shame, heck, I picked up chicken crap for years, and I wasn't ashamed. As long as a man or woman, is doing a day's work, and receiving whatever pay for it, or even if he's properly volunteering his time or expertise, he has #1 respect in my mind, no matter what occupation. But screwing over other people, so you can be subsidized, in a false belief that tomorrow, you can make it better, is not exusable in my mind. I've lost plenty of money in bankruptcies, usually unless it's over $5000 I don't even bother trying collecting, it's just not worth my time, and paying the lawyer.

    Fact. Respect, for a person, is earned by character. I have a guy, Mr. Lopez, living in a house out back. Real fancy job, he washes trucks for a big trucker,,,,, wash, buff, polish, wax, whatever. Just over minimum wage. Laid off for two or three months earlier this year, not enough trucks running. Never applied for unemployment, I have a friend, speaks Spanish better than he, English better than I. Translated, he just thinks unemployment is wrong, doesn't like getting something for nothing. BTW, he is legal. Scraped by, day jobs here and there. I helped, wasn't too picky about rent and utilities being paid on the first. Didn't insult him, though, by offering free rent or anything, he probably would've refused it anyway. Still sent money home, to his kids (he's a widower, btw, sister takes care of them). Even gave him a hundred, here and there, to tide him over rough times. Got every dam penny back. Just fronted him another hundred last week, no doubt in my mind, I'll get it back. Oh, yeah, no signatures or anything involved, just a handshake.

    Both my wife and I, think enough of this MAN, his character, his honesty,,,, his rent ($400), has not increased, ever. In the last two years, we put new linoleum, new carpets, new stove, new refrigerator, new washer, new dryer. I admit, I did raise his utility (electric and gas), from $30 to $50, a couple years ago. You can look around, you can't even rent a dam tent, here in this part of California, for $450 a month, even without utilities thrown in. Profit????? Zero. Actually, probably, negative zero And I call myself a businessman. Comfort, and proud to have this MAN living next to us??? Priceless. Keeps the place immaculate,,,,, he can move out five years from now, the new stuff will look just as good as it did when we installed it. It still does today, he's never ashamed to invite me in for a bite, he takes pride in how he lives, and where he lives.

    Point is, you don't "measure" a man, by his occupation, what he does, what his income level is. You measure a man or a woman, by character, word, honesty. I can call field workers, chicken **** scoopers, cafeteria workers, burger flippers, etc. etc. my friends, and I do. And one particular truck washer. And he don't kiss my ***, either. When I fire the forklift, or the engine drive welder, up at 6AM Sunday morning,,,, believe me, I hear about it.

    What I'm really trying to say, in a long roundabout way, if you, Mr. Finch, think you have to keep pissing away money, to maintain a certain standard, you are wrong. Do what you want, Do something, anything, don't waste away. But don't think you have to be "in business" to maintain a certain social standing, or keep certain friends. Maintain your character, and keep your standards, is more important. Which includes paying your bills, whatever they may be. And you'll find out who your real friends are, soon enough, anyway. And they might not always be, who you think they are.
    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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    • #32
      I speak truth, Railman, truth. Like it or not. Anything you disagree with me about??? Or are you one of those lovey, fuzzy, soft, sensitive guys, who will soon insure, that there will be no such thing as risk-takers, and self-employed people, remaining in either of our countries?????
      Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

      Comment


      • #33
        Closing Down ? Maybe !

        To All My Fellow Weldors;

        Thankyou for all your kind thoughts and encouragement, I'll have some heavy thinking to do this week, in comming to a decision on what road I take in My immeditate future !

        JSFAB, Yes I've been in the Welding industry for over 40yrs., I'm a journeyman Ironworker formerly out of Local 736, Hamilton, On. !

        No , I'm Not in my 60's , I'll be 59 in Sept., I've been earning my living Welding since I was 16yrs. old. !!!
        I thank you for taking the time to give your view of the Universe ( As You see It )

        Railmen, Ty, Thankyou for your concern, I left Local 736 many years ago !

        Thankyou , Everyone, My Heart Felt Thanks to each and every one of you !!

        ............. Norm :
        www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

        Comment


        • #34
          Jsfab... Your the kind of guy i enjoy sitting down and smoking a fine cigar with over chilled tequila.


          Norm... Hang in there and keep your nose up. You only fail when you up and quit!!!

          Jeffery

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          • #35
            HEY,,,,,

            I am NOT telling anybody to give up, quit, whatever. I am just telling the man, he needs to take a good hard look, where he started, where he's been, and where he wants to be. Self employment/business ownership, is not for everybody, I myself don't think more or less of a person either way. Getting there, by pissing away somebody else's money, isn't right, whether or not you create a cute little "corporation" to protect yourself. Getting there, by pissing away your wife's retirement, is also not the correct way to do it. Blowing away a paid-for house, in my mind, is pissing away the wife's retirement.

            Not failure,,,, just sometimes people need to face reality.

            Mr. Finch, can I ask, do you have an accountant??? If not, is there one you can consult??? For relatively little money, any good accountant should be able to give you very good advice, as to which way to go. You just have to be honest with he or she.
            Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by nfinch86 View Post
              To All My Fellow Weldors;

              Thankyou for all your kind thoughts and encouragement, I'll have some heavy thinking to do this week, in comming to a decision on what road I take in My immeditate future !

              JSFAB, Yes I've been in the Welding industry for over 40yrs., I'm a journeyman Ironworker formerly out of Local 736, Hamilton, On. !

              No , I'm Not in my 60's , I'll be 59 in Sept., I've been earning my living Welding since I was 16yrs. old. !!!
              I thank you for taking the time to give your view of the Universe ( As You see It )

              Railmen, Ty, Thankyou for your concern, I left Local 736 many years ago !

              Thankyou , Everyone, My Heart Felt Thanks to each and every one of you !!

              ............. Norm :
              As a retired Union pipefitter in the US, sorry not a welder but a refrigeration fitter. Did you leave your Local under good terms? What I am wondering if they would take you back in as a welder? There might not be work in your area, but if you are willing to travel can you find work up north on the pipeline or oil industy? Just a thought. I also taught night classes at my Local... Don't give up, but I would never morgage my house to pay bills unless you have a job to make the payments.
              Miller MultiMate 200 MIG/ Stick/TIG
              Retired
              Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter
              Master Electrician
              Amateur Home shop Machinist & Welder

              Comment


              • #37
                Hey jsfab, don't get me wrong i'm totally with you!!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Have you considered advertising?? Print up flyers and magnetic business cards. Walk into businesses that are potential clients and introduce yourself. If you don't want to do that put the info in an envelope and put it in the mail box. There is craigslist too, local pennysavers (news and advertisement papers). Hit up alternative businesses that you may not have considered before. Look for piece work or contracts on line. How do you bid to local municipalities? You could also just look for a job until things pick up??
                  Dynasty 200 DX
                  Millermatic 175
                  Spectrum 375
                  All kinds of Smith OA gear

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                  • #39
                    Union- Local 736 Ironworkers

                    Originally posted by Laiky View Post
                    Have you considered advertising?? Print up flyers and magnetic business cards. Walk into businesses that are potential clients and introduce yourself. If you don't want to do that put the info in an envelope and put it in the mail box. There is craigslist too, local pennysavers (news and advertisement papers). Hit up alternative businesses that you may not have considered before. Look for piece work or contracts on line. How do you bid to local municipalities? You could also just look for a job until things pick up??
                    Laiky Hi;

                    Yes , I have done all of the above, News papers, Flyers, Radio Ads, I'm near the last of my 3,000 business cards, I've delivered by hand & by mail over 14,000 Flyers, I have my own web site, with over 6,500 hits from around the World.

                    Why & when did I leave the Union? Well in the last recession in the 1980's
                    we had 1,400 members with 1,000 out of work !!
                    I pulled my pension, and went back to working in local welding shops, I taught driving ( became a licenced driving instructor) No money there, I sold Clothing in a Men's Wear Store, worked in a Meat packing Plant !

                    You name it & I've probably done it !!

                    Finally I started my own Mobile Welding Business !

                    On the bright side , I talked to a friend who is a foreman- management type guy, he says he may be able to get me in as casual employee, working in and around the parks & arenas for the County here in Norflok !!

                    It may be enough to keep me & my business viable for some time ?
                    We shall see next week how it turns out, make that Two weeks, he's on vacation this comming week !!

                    Anyways , Thanks Everyone,

                    .............. Norm
                    www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      As with most industries in this recession, jobs are scarce. When McDonalds has 50 applications for a $10/hr job, you know things are bad, compounded with having to have a complete resume that a business owner won't have. I mean, what do you put on it. Worked for last 10 years owning a numbered company in welding. Job responsibilities, reason for leaving, job references.

                      Good luck

                      I'm finding this out now, as I can't even secure construction operator work, as my resume is incomplete. A foreign 7/11 clerk would have a better chance on getting a technical position than I could right now. All the schooling and years of technical experience really means nothing without that complete resume.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Recession, No- Depression, Yes !!

                        Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                        As with most industries in this recession, jobs are scarce. When McDonalds has 50 applications for a $10/hr job, you know things are bad, compounded with having to have a complete resume that a business owner won't have. I mean, what do you put on it. Worked for last 10 years owning a numbered company in welding. Job responsibilities, reason for leaving, job references.

                        Good luck

                        I'm finding this out now, as I can't even secure construction operator work, as my resume is incomplete. A foreign 7/11 clerk would have a better chance on getting a technical position than I could right now. All the schooling and years of technical experience really means nothing without that complete resume.
                        Cruizer Hi;

                        I know I'm Not the only one that's going through this Nightmare, I hear ya man !!

                        We just have to scratch & hold on for All We're worth !
                        Cruizer, are you a private contractor or are you doing Tech. work for another company ?

                        Hang on man, that's what I'm trying to do !!

                        ............ Norm
                        www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          compounded with having to have a complete resume that a business owner won't have. I mean, what do you put on it.
                          Yes, thats what you put on it, self employed. Many times that is a huge asset, lots of guys that were self have a wide variety of experience that others never get.
                          Back in the day when I was beating the bushes I was a job hopper I saw a lot of cases where long history with one outfit didn't do a lot of good, more than once I heard, "How come I been here 10 years and you been here 2 weeks and you are the boss"?
                          Hobart has a lot of sub forums, one that is needed is a business, county living is a waste of space there as is the FFA, they are both ok ideas but helping guys with biz drives sales. Lots of guys very technically proficient or do ok when times are good but never really get a grip on other important things. Having ones head under a hood is ok but there is a need to look up before the crap hits and keep an eye on strategic moves, biz is a competitive sport, its easy to lose that fact. I am in family biz where these skills and focus has been lacking, I thought I could wait some of it out but it is biting me in the rear, they focus and worry about customers but totally ignore our position (and capitalizing on it) and don't have a clue about competition. The people I work with cause more headache in this area than customer issues, even more than economic conditions.
                          Comp drives quality and those who are average long term wont make it, strategy is how you differentiate yourself from competitors. Others also do what we do, how do we set ourselves apart? Many work on their areas of weakness instead of driving on the strength, lots of stuff make it a losing battle.

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                          • #43
                            General advertising will probably not make up for marketing, big difference.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by nfinch86 View Post
                              Cruizer Hi;

                              I know I'm Not the only one that's going through this Nightmare, I hear ya man !!

                              We just have to scratch & hold on for All We're worth !
                              Cruizer, are you a private contractor or are you doing Tech. work for another company ?

                              Hang on man, that's what I'm trying to do !!

                              ............ Norm
                              A numered company working as "Weld Alert". It's not the business for me thats bad its the woes with GST. Which locked me out of my company's line of credit. I had to transfer to another line of credit on my credit card which just happened to say Weld Alert on it from an incorporated firm I owned years back. Thats all that saved me.

                              Can't cash a cheque for 4 months easily wipes a company.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Norm, I wasn't really trying to be an ***,,, Yes, it is hard almost all over right now. I'm smack dab in the center of California, just south of Sacramento, I saw this thing starting a couple years ago. Ground Zero. Immediately clamped down on expenses,,,, nothing was bought unless absolutely necessary. And if it was bought, cash only. Pay as we go.

                                My gross has been steadily dropping for the last couple years, but the net, not so much. Businesswise, I've always been able to pay my bills, personal living expenses, it's been getting harder. BUT,,,, I will NOT do any job, unless it's a favor of some sort, that can't pencil out a profit in the end. I mean, I'm more than happy, to turn down jobs, if there's not something in it for me at the end, why bother????

                                This last year, yeah, the net income was hurt considerably. We eat more chicken now,,,, do you have any idea, how many ways there are to cook chicken???? Probably healthier, too.

                                I will say this: Just judging by the type of jobs coming in, more industrial, more trucks, more commercial trailers, more equipment,,,,,,, not a whole lot more, but more, things are starting to look up a little. Things are looking up enough, I'm feeling confident enough, I just spent $5000 on a brand new engine drive.

                                That being said, I would not ever, never, consider re-mortgaging my house, to pay for normal everyday living or business expenses.

                                My whole point earlier, was not to put you down, but to really examine your reasons for trying to stay in business. You gotta remember, there's a huge risk involved in doing what you are doing. 25 year old guy, I'd say go for it. If you win, great payoff, maybe retire before 50. If the 25 year old guy looses,,,, so what??? Plenty of time left, to start over. But you are about 60???? Hey, start thinking about the safe route. You already have a paid-for house, that's the biggest expense in anybody's budget. Myself, I'm only 50, and I see myself getting more and more fiscally conservative every month.

                                Again, if you don't already, get a relationship started with an accountant. That's their expertise, just numbers, no emotion. Is this a viable concern,,,,, if not, why??? and also, what can possibly be done, to make it a viable concern. Or, if it's even worth bothering with.

                                Yes, this will cost you money. But just like my customers, pay me good money for my expertise, I have no fear of paying other people, for their expertise, accountants and lawyers, the right ones, can be a very valuable investment.

                                Think about this long and hard, Mr. Finch,,,,, I myself hate to see a guy work hard all his life, and loose everything at the end.

                                And I sincerely do hope, it all works out for you in the end.
                                Last edited by JSFAB; 08-04-2009, 11:19 AM.
                                Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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