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  • McKinney article on 4130

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...sis-fabricator

    Any one read this and like to comment? Seems to go against the norm for welding 4130, normalized and heat treated.
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  • #2
    "Top Fuel Fab"

    Never had the pleasure of welding a top fuel chassis, have you?

    Well, you asked for a comment

    Dave
    "Bonne journe'e mes amis"

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    • #3
      Lots of good info in there, but i never welded one either...Bob
      Bob Wright

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      • #4
        I have welded chrome-moloy and I've only ever used SST filler rod...Can't say that I've ever worked with ER80 whatever....I have welded chassis for race purposes but we used nickel-bronze and something else...can't remeber what it was.....Quaz

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Laiky View Post
          http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...sis-fabricator

          Any one read this and like to comment? Seems to go against the norm for welding 4130, normalized and heat treated.
          How would you normalize and heat treat a chassis? As side from a very large oven it's impractical.
          We used to weld up weldments out of 4130 4140 and we would just pre and post heat the joint. Never normalized or heat treated after welding Unless the part was small enough to fit in the oven
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          • #6
            In the article they state that they weld normalized to heat treated and it works fine in their testing. that goes against what i have learned here. I'm just a hobbiest but i find 4130 interesting since i'm a racing and aviation buff. I would guess that fatigue life isn't as much of a factor in a fuel chassis vs an airplane that will see thousands of hours of use. Just guessing. I have not built a dragster either unfortunately.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by kcstott View Post
              How would you normalize and heat treat a chassis? As side from a very large oven it's impractical.
              We used to weld up weldments out of 4130 4140 and we would just pre and post heat the joint. Never normalized or heat treated after welding Unless the part was small enough to fit in the oven
              We get metal heat treated all the time here in the refinery. Some pipes may be 200' long and a company will come in and wrap the line with wires, insulation and little red things that look like firecrackers on a string. They have a control unit in a little tent that heats the pipe and cools it to whatever temp they want. Sometimes they stand round the clock for days doing a line...Bob
              http://www.phoenixservices.com/heattreating.html
              Bob Wright

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              • #8
                Never use S.S. for welding Chromoly

                Originally posted by QuazI View Post
                I have welded chrome-moloy and I've only ever used SST filler rod...Can't say that I've ever worked with ER80 whatever....I have welded chassis for race purposes but we used nickel-bronze and something else...can't remeber what it was.....Quaz
                You'll never get the ferrite content (number) you need using S.S. wire. It will be brittle and eventually fail in service.

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                • #9
                  If you do some diggin' in the archives here you will find a couple of years back, there was a HUGE discussion on this very subject on more than one thread.
                  Some included employies from Mckinney's and some people who welded in aviation.
                  The main jist is at mckinney's they totally go against common wisdom thru-out their entire process, both in their material choice and their technique.
                  Notice John Force is NOT one that you can ckick on... on their website

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                  • #10
                    I'm wondering if they get away with it because the # of cycles are so low on a drag car vs an airplane. I also wonder if the car is overbuilt enough that it works. The failures we heard about might be proof of that. Maybe the # of cycles was high enough that fatigue became a factor. Just speculating of course but for some reason i find this topic very interesting.
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                    • #11
                      Here is my thoughts,
                      Welding is as much about application, as it is about materials. What do I mean by that? Well, just because some shop uses a technique to build a limited life drag car, that doesnt mean that their process has any application in any other field. These guys have had to go through a learning curve to make their cars live, too bad all they had to do is pick up an engineering manual from about 1950 when arc welding 4130 tubing was common in the aerospace industry, and guess what.....thats where all the pre and post heat treatments came from. So nobody is figuring out anything new, they are just repeating the past....finally.
                      Last edited by Aerometalworker; 08-04-2009, 02:18 PM.
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                      • #12
                        Seems as if I read that Pleuger[spelling?] whom also builds nhra top fuel/funny car chassis doesn't heat treat any of there 4130 chromoly chassis and has never had a failure to date. This is what John Force runs. I think the bigger issue is when folks weld 4130 with 4130 filler. Most seem ok when welding with er80sd2 filler. Don't quote me just seems as if this is what I read recently in a drag racing publication.
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                        • #13
                          I could swear Force runs only McKinney?
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Laiky View Post
                            I could swear Force runs only McKinney?
                            I believe the crashes changed all that.

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                            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
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                            Miller WC-115-A
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Laiky View Post
                              I could swear Force runs only McKinney?
                              John Force Racing now builds there chassis all in-house but Plueger built his[John Force] chassis for over 25 years. He built all of John's chassis till he went to a 4 car team then JFR started building there own. Steve Plueger said didn't have the desire to be a production welder so he had to bow out of the picture. Steve said he's never had a failure in one of his cars. The only cars that cracked and broke were made with heat-treated tubing, when the SFI specifications called for "normalized" tubing.No Murf Mckinney chassis for JFR.
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