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Tig root pass on carbon steel pipe

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  • Tig root pass on carbon steel pipe

    I am fairly new to welding, at least pipe. I am currently trying to get my certs for pipe so I can get a job up north at the Chevron Oil Refinery but Im having some trouble getting enough penetration on the root. My root looks great on the outside but on the inside it looks slightly sucked back and I cant seem to get it no matter how many different ways I try. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    What I do:
    3/32” tungsten very long sharp point
    Knife edge, no land at all
    3/32” Gap
    1/8” filler
    100-amps for root, just break the filler down, don’t weave the tungsten past the width of the filler, and move fast!
    Do not increase the amps more than 10 to 15-amps for the hot pass or you’ll get suck back.
    Attached Files
    Caution!
    These are "my" views based only on “my” experiences in “my” little bitty world.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sonora,
      Just wondering, how do you get a good root if your filler is bigger than your gap? Don't you need to feed to the back of the ID side of the pipe for proper root fusion?
      "When the wise old rooster crows, the smart young rooster listens."

      Comment


      • #4
        No questions please!
        I’m just a trigger puller!
        Caution!
        These are "my" views based only on “my” experiences in “my” little bitty world.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jasonspoon View Post
          Sonora,
          Just wondering, how do you get a good root if your filler is bigger than your gap? Don't you need to feed to the back of the ID side of the pipe for proper root fusion?
          Nope. That is pretty well identical to my style as well. You can make some minor variations to suit your own level of experience. Those pictures show there is plenty of material flowing to the inside of the pipe. It just takes a little practise and experimentation to figure out what works for you.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by jasonspoon View Post
            Sonora,
            Just wondering, how do you get a good root if your filler is bigger than your gap? Don't you need to feed to the back of the ID side of the pipe for proper root fusion?
            Sonora's methiod works because the arc helps push the filler in. Thats were the ''very long sharp point'' comes into play. Moving fast is key because setting in one place to long will cause your root to flaten-out. I like to run tig roots like this when I'm doing rollouts (especially on stainless), gravity makes it even easier. Feeding the wire thro the bevels is handy when you have Hi-Lo or on alloys that tend to want to suck back easier on the bottom.

            Sonora, thats a fine looking root you got.
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            • #7
              Welding X-Ray pipe is easy once you learn how to do it, Just like learning how to ride a bike seems like you'll never learn untill the day you finally do it and then you say to yourself ( Why did I think it was so hard )

              Why? Because it was hard.

              I can spend 8 hrs trying to tech a guy how to weld and I find if the same guy has 3 lessons 2hrs long he learns more in the 3 two hour lessons than the one 8 hr lesson.

              Lay in bed tonight and think about it and try again tomorrow.

              Good luck.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sonora Iron View Post
                What I do:
                3/32” tungsten very long sharp point
                Knife edge, no land at all
                3/32” Gap
                1/8” filler
                100-amps for root, just break the filler down, don’t weave the tungsten past the width of the filler, and move fast!
                Do not increase the amps more than 10 to 15-amps for the hot pass or you’ll get suck back.
                Thats one way to do it.If it was me welding I'd do it a little different.i'm not a fan of big filler wire as most people don't break it down as well as they would 1/16'" filler. I like a decent land as well as it's a little more forgiving than no land at all.If we were talking stainless I'd second the no land but on carbon no way. My gap will always be bigger than my filler unless a wps dictates different.I'd say 100 amps+ 1/16 filler wire at least 1/8" gap if not a hair bigger[it will close up as you make your way around the joint].If you open up a larger than you like key hole just feed wire on the sides and not in the middle. I also disagree with not increasing amps more than 10 - 15 or you will get suck back.This is false. You will get suck back by not using enough filler on second pass.If you cram the wire to it it will not suck back even if you go 20 + amps more than the root.Btw I weld x-ray joints every day.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Showdog75 View Post
                  Thats one way to do it.If it was me welding I'd do it a little different.i'm not a fan of big filler wire as most people don't break it down as well as they would 1/16'" filler. I like a decent land as well as it's a little more forgiving than no land at all.If we were talking stainless I'd second the no land but on carbon no way. My gap will always be bigger than my filler unless a wps dictates different.I'd say 100 amps+ 1/16 filler wire at least 1/8" gap if not a hair bigger[it will close up as you make your way around the joint].If you open up a larger than you like key hole just feed wire on the sides and not in the middle. I also disagree with not increasing amps more than 10 - 15 or you will get suck back.This is false. You will get suck back by not using enough filler on second pass.If you cram the wire to it it will not suck back even if you go 20 + amps more than the root.Btw I weld x-ray joints every day.
                  1/16'' wire I'd have cold wire all over the inside. lol
                  BTW how many pieces of 1/16 wire does it take to root a piece of 24''
                  '08 F-350
                  Vantage 400
                  SA-250
                  SA-200
                  Invertec V350Pro
                  Invertec V205T-AC/DC

                  Miller 12VS suitcase
                  Miller spectrum 2050

                  Pipe beveler's
                  Track torch

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Showdog75 View Post
                    I also disagree with not increasing amps more than 10 - 15 or you will get suck back.This is false. You will get suck back by not using enough filler on second pass.If you cram the wire to it it will not suck back even if you go 20 + amps more than the root.Btw I weld x-ray joints every day.
                    Good deal! That could very well be the missing part of the puzzle, (for me anyway).

                    Thanks for posting that!
                    Caution!
                    These are "my" views based only on “my” experiences in “my” little bitty world.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rig Hand View Post
                      1/16'' wire I'd have cold wire all over the inside. lol
                      BTW how many pieces of 1/16 wire does it take to root a piece of 24''
                      I ASSuMEd he was talking 2" test coupon or thereabouts. Yeah 1/16" filler would get you run off a 24" pipe job.
                      Dynasty 200DX "Blue Lightning"
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                      Home-made English wheel
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                      " Sawz-all
                      Tennsmith 36" stomp shear
                      Fixer upper 1968 Redface Lincoln sa200
                      Powcon 300st

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey I really enjoyed this post. I have a few questions, if you do not mind answering them, Sonora Iron

                        Basically are you using a free hand technique? Are you lighting up on the tack and using a lay-wire technique? Are you just dragging the torch or are you moving forward and back? You mentioned not weaving and keeping the arc in the gap on the wire, but I guess the crux of what i am wanting to know is a)How are you manipulating the torch and b) how are you feeding wire — are you laying it down or are you pushing it in the puddle?

                        Any clarity or insight you could offer would be amazing. I need to get my roots straightened out by monday — super coupon test. The “low heat-big gap” technique I have used in the past will not work with thr QC/CWI at this company.

                        Thank you for your time,
                        Jason

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                        • #13
                          Jason, you need to "do" what Sanora Welding and the others said, at this stage the magic is just "do it" until you get it right, sometimes the learning process is learning all the wrong things to do until you get it down.

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                          • #14
                            Very sound advice. Merely attempting to get as much clarity as possible — I am on a bit of a deadline. Worse comes to worse, Ill weld the way I know. But Sonora’s root (above) is remarkable. Ill bang my head against a wall until I get it

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                            • #15
                              Root passes take practice and personal touch. I like 3/32 gap and 1/16 rod. Guys I work with use 3/32 gap and 1/8 rod. Everyone passes x Ray. It's all in the way you learned and the way that works for you. Practice is the key tho. One day it'll click and be beautiful

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