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  • nfinch86
    replied
    Information +++ !!

    Originally posted by davedarragh View Post
    Steve: Yes I did, and yes I have. My posts speak in reference to those who are "learning" the skill. Many readers and contributors have used nothing more than a 180 short circuit MIG, and .035 wire.

    Many of the fundamental basics are overlooked due to the convenient nature of "out-of-the-box," "ready-to-weld," all in one machines.

    Pre heat and interpass tempatures, cold temperature welding, bottom beam flange-to-column, and multi-pass welds will rarely be performed by the majority of the Forum members.

    Pursuant to these issues, my intentions and contributions address those most likely to meet that criteria in an understandable conversation.

    Dave
    Dave Hi; For this Weldor of Four Decades, Thanks !!

    Dave you are the Most informed member I know of on this or Any Forum !

    .................. Norm

    Leave a comment:


  • davedarragh
    replied
    "Beveled Steel, or Develed Eggs"

    Originally posted by Steve View Post
    I don't bevel 1/4. See above post of 3/4 2 pass weld.

    Steve: Yes I did, and yes I have. My posts speak in reference to those who are "learning" the skill. Many readers and contributors have used nothing more than a 180 short circuit MIG, and .035 wire.

    Many of the fundamental basics are overlooked due to the convenient nature of "out-of-the-box," "ready-to-weld," all in one machines.

    Pre heat and interpass tempatures, cold temperature welding, bottom beam flange-to-column, and multi-pass welds will rarely be performed by the majority of the Forum members.

    Pursuant to these issues, my intentions and contributions address those most likely to meet that criteria in an understandable conversation.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • diamondback
    replied
    excellent question Maineiac,

    stick electrode still dominates the industry around the world.

    With the advances in chemistry however it is not difficult to have a continuous electrode (wire) that matches or exceeds the properties of a noncontinuous wire (stick) remember that the wires are coming from the same place and then being drawn differently. They both start out as green rod and then are processed to meet their needs. The difference often being the diameter and the surface condition. A stick electrode gets a cellulose coating and a MIG wire gets a copper coating typically unless it is a bare wire. Yes the chemistry's are different in their alloying elements when you get into the higher tensile wires. So I won't say a wire is a wire is a wire, but it can be close. Then we can discuss flux cored wires and the ability to make whatever you want as long as you want 5,000 pounds of it (usually the minimum order for something special)

    Yes there are seismic wires for wire feed welding either flux cored, metal cored or solid wires. As pointed out previously sometimes it really comes down to how good the guy is laying the bead.

    We also run into code restrictions where wire feed welding is not an accepted practice. To that let me just say that I have sat in on code meetings and when it takes a 2 hour discussion and then a 6 month research project by 6 people to determine if a comma should be used, it does not surprise me at all that it is going to take a very long time to get the code committees to write it in.

    Some of my peers here have recently demonstrated advanced process welding to a state DOT board who were skeptical about pulsed welding. Keep in mind these people are some of the best and brightest in civil and mechanical engineering but their exposure to welding and I mean really getting into it and understanding it was a survey class when they were freshmen in college. Their typical experience with welding was with short circuit welding and seeing the quality they could do and then some professor who remembers General Washington says stick is the way to go. I am not at all trying to belittle them or make fun of them but only to illustrate where they are in the advancements of welding. For them their time is spent doing a lot of other design and evaluation processes and when it comes to welding good enough has been good enough for a long time. They are however looking around now to see what can be done as companies push the newer technologies in welding so they can be faster and less expensive. For years and years stick welding has been the process of choice in my opinion as a legacy to someone way back when, when they needed a process better and faster than riveting. At that time stick welding was the process of choice due to ease of use compared to MIG back then and mobility. We all know what it takes to run a stinger out to a project or to try to run a wire feeder out there, pushing a Millermatic 350P across a dirt yard isn't easy. With the application of the suitcase feeder and self shielded wire, now the gloves come off between wire and stick.

    Don't get me wrong, I think stick will be around for a long, long time. As well it should be. There are no silver bullets for anything, but a good welder with a good process can over come a lot, mostly because his pride won't let him back down.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve
    replied
    I don't bevel 1/4. See above post of 3/4 2 pass weld.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rig Hand
    replied
    Originally posted by davedarragh View Post
    Sheet metal is material up to and including 3/16"

    Plate is anything thicker.

    1/4"+ material should be beveled for CJP or PJP groove welds.

    Dave
    Their is my daily dose of Dave.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve
    replied
    So I reckon none of yas has made a box tube of 8in x 8in 3/4 angle iron 10 feet long with two passes of mig per sides joined? Mig 3/4 in two passes? Caution thermal protection is required.

    Leave a comment:


  • davedarragh
    replied
    FCAW-g

    Originally posted by Vernon View Post
    Hi Maineiac,

    I've been welding for about 25 years.I try many types of welds.I also
    started with stick much like you and was not sure of mig welds.Heres what I learned.Stick is good for outdoors and old material,but a slow going.Mig is good for lite materials and work bench type jobs.Now you will love the next
    one It's called "dual sheild" welds like a stick and lays down like nothing you
    ever seen before oh its stong to.I,ve welded roller coasters with this and you
    got to try it.ONLY thing must be 1/4" or better because of the heat.I have a 251 miller mig I run .045 Dual Sheild at my house.

    good luck Vernon
    Vern: "Gas-Shielded Flux-Cored Wire."

    Several "Ultra-Core" and "Outershield" types meet design requirements specified in AWS D1.8 and FEMA 353 for seismic applications.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Vernon
    replied
    stick vs mig

    Hi Maineiac,

    I've been welding for about 25 years.I try many types of welds.I also
    started with stick much like you and was not sure of mig welds.Heres what I learned.Stick is good for outdoors and old material,but a slow going.Mig is good for lite materials and work bench type jobs.Now you will love the next
    one It's called "dual sheild" welds like a stick and lays down like nothing you
    ever seen before oh its stong to.I,ve welded roller coasters with this and you
    got to try it.ONLY thing must be 1/4" or better because of the heat.I have a 251 miller mig I run .045 Dual Sheild at my house.

    good luck Vernon

    Leave a comment:


  • davedarragh
    replied
    "Technically Speaking"

    Sheet metal is material up to and including 3/16"

    Plate is anything thicker.

    1/4"+ material should be beveled for CJP or PJP groove welds.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • urch55
    replied
    Power to be used not abused.!~!~!~!~!

    Well Maineiac I think every one agrees if they said it or not. It's nice to have machines available for different applications. I would rather weld with a mig on 16 ga sheet, and use a smaw with some 7014-18 on 3/4" plate Hmm maybe a 6010 root pass. I am not saying you can't use a mig on heavy plate, because I have with out any come backs. But the multi process machine with a wire feeder was set up only to do heavy plate. You could not use it on 16ga sheet if you wanted to, because the wire size was so thick. That leads to another problem using a mig, if you turn up the mig too much the wire will just blow away so you have too know the limits your machine, because the way it's set up to perform. .. Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • davedarragh
    replied
    "Joint Qualification"

    Welding joints "fit" into one of two broad categories: Pre-Qualified and Qualified By Testing.

    Pre-Qualified are those details that have a proven history of acceptable performance.

    Qualified By Test are as good as pre-qualified.

    Strength of weldments are based upon their design criteria. Leg size, root, throat, face, toe and HAZ (heat affected zone) are measurements of CJP (complete joint penetration), PJP (partial joint penetration, and fillet welds.

    Generally Solid MIG Wire welding isn't popular (or permitted) in structural applications due to the lower voltages in short arc transfer, creating fusion problems (cold lap, lack of root or sidewall fusion)

    To achieve similar depostion rates of spray-arc, in out-of-position welds, metal-cored wires are becoming increasing popular, offering greater resistance to "cold-lapping", and permitting the use of higher currents than solid wire.

    Hope this answers your question.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • kcstott
    replied
    Here's the deal and a few others have already covered it but i'll give you my reasoning. In the hands of equally skilled weldors with equal requirements to the weld they are completely the same. But when you get into seismic welding, structural and bridge code, Pipeline etc... they are not equal. as mentioned try to find a replacement the met all the specs for 9018 was impossible. There are a wide verity of wires available solid core, flux core, dual shield. GMAW can be made to suite just about every weld situation out there but as with any process it has it's limitations. And then there is just the pure fact the the code you are welding to may require stick when a perfectly good wire is available.

    It all comes down to what you end result needs to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maineiac
    replied
    Originally posted by Maineiac View Post
    I have been away from welding school a very long time ago. And welding procedures have changed alot through the years,I am assuming.
    Welding 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 inch steel using MIG. Can it be as strong as stick
    welding? I know how to do both. But most of the welding that I have done while I was working was stick. And I have never had any come back because of poor welding. So as you can see, I have a large amount of faith in stick welding. If mig welding laid properly, is it as good or better than stick welding? I have just purchase a Millermatic 211 but that was mostly for thin steel and also aluminum. I have always enjoyed stick welding better, but if mig welding is as strong I will be doing alot more of it.Would love to hear from you gents or ladies. Thanks
    It's nice to be important But it's much more important to be nice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maineiac
    replied
    Hi Griff01 & TangleDiver: You gents have confirmed exactly what I had been thinking right along. For the past month I have been doing a fair amount of welding with my brother. We are in the constant battle, and arguing about this mig and stick process. We have done it so much that is what lead me to question myself. Thanks to this wonderful forum I now have more positive feedback about stick. I appricate your reply gents.
    Last edited by Maineiac; 06-08-2009, 04:05 AM.

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  • tanglediver
    replied
    Welding 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 inch steel using MIG. Can it be as strong as stick
    Yes, it can be. Two areas of concern, in my opinion, are depth of penetration and cold lap. You get that using mig more than with stick. Preheat is more beneficial with thicker metal and larger pieces, especially for using mig. The best example I can give is when tack welding parts together, how many times will a little mig welded tack let go? Compare that to tacks made with stick. That is in short-circuit transfer voltage ranges. Spray transfer is different!! But a MM211 is not ideal for spray transfer anyway.
    Mig can be cleaner and somewhat faster, you just have to choose the best fitting process for the job.
    Fluxcore is a nice option to consider over solid wire mig. No shielding gas, and a bit better penetration.
    I hope I have helped.

    Leave a comment:

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