Vent Session

[welderdude402]

Ok, I was talking to a guy that just moved into town. He has his own rig and was out on the road for a few years welding pipe. As we were talking about our rigs, somewhere along in the conversation he said that a lot of places won't even test you if you have a TB 302 on your rig. That just set my mood for the rest of the day to pi$$ed because I asked him why and he said it's too small of a machine and can't handle it. He has an old lincoln on his rig and I asked what its top output was and he said 300 A. It just has been festering and just pi$$ing me off. I want to know why the TB "won't handle" it.

Does anyone else out there weld pipe full time or even part time with the TB302 or does one really need a bigger machine. I mean, yeah, the larger would be nice for the Arc Gouging side of things, but the TB will handle up to 3/16" carbons. But I was just wondering as to why the TB would be too small.

Sorry if I'm sounding like a little angry child, but I just wanted to vent a little bit and find out what some others thought on it.

By the way, I will find out tomorrow what size lincoln he does have.

[FusionKing]

OH BOY....this should be a fun thread

[Coalsmoke]

ohhhhhhhhhh boy, here goes the can of worms

Are you looking for pipe specific replies? If so, disregard this, if not, then I will say this much, my TB302 did not have nearly as nice of a arc characteristic as my 45 year old lincoln SA-200 and that the lincoln never let me down even in the middle of the summer when I ran it [email protected] out, where as the main reason I switched from the TB302 to the lincoln pipeliner was that the TB302 was giving me troubles and I was tired of the downtime. If the TB302 kept running without having glitches or flat out breaking down, I wouldn't have switched because for the structural, equipment and piling jobs I did it was fine, but it didn't seem very robust in my eyes.

I know of someone that welds pipe with a TB302, ............. my thought is why make life more difficult on oneself than it needs to be.

[cruizer]

Yep a can of worms here, its not that the 302 won't handle it, its the arc characteristics say passing a route without snubbing out which is a common complaint. The Pro300, or Pipepro 304 will pass a route and cap nicely compared to a 302.

The Lincoln 305G is more common in the field for a small machine along with the other Lincoln lineup.


I'm sure there will be a bunch of guys working with this particular machine without complaints. I just don't see this machine on rigs very much in oil country Alberta. As for testing, I can't see there being any problem other than the snubbing out issues which is kind of an imediate fail.

[DDA52]

Coal, you just had a bad one.

[welderdude402]

Coalsmoke- What kind of problems or glitches did your TB have? just wondering.

[nocheepgas]

I love my Millers, even the one on my Gas Pipeline Crew Truck, but mostly we do maintenance welding, and not a lot of "Pipelining". That said, the standard of the industry for that type of work is LINCOLN! They really do outperform the Millers with their small Onan or Kohler 2 cylinder engine. Yea, the welding output in amps might compare but I've welded with many Millers and a few Lincolns and if I were to go out on my own to do pipeline work It'd have to be with a Lincoln.

EDIT: Just got my Miller Legend back from the shop.........again! The Onan would just cough, choke, and puke, then spit sputter and backfire. It would really suck trying to put in a root bead when that crap started! The shop sent it back as "repaired" 5 times (yea, I know, that's a shop issue) before finally getting it (somewhat) right. It still has a little stutter in it every few minutes, but the engines in the Lincoln pipeliners aren't nearly as quirky.

[welderdude402]

I guess I was just trying to say that while I might not be out welding pipe every day with my TB, if I would happen to get a job (perhaps this summer at one of the ethanol plants goin up/getting finished) a lot of that stuff is either tig root or 6010 root w/7018 fill and cap. It just popped into my head that I just went and spent close to $8K (so far) on my rig and he's sayin (the way I perceived it) is that my welder couldn't handle it, or I wouldn't get a job because of it.

I think that's the main reason I got so perturbed about the situation.

Edit: As to the engine problems, are there problems with the Kohler engines? I ordered mine with the Kohler and haven't had a problem with it..granted I am just somewhat gettin started in the 'self employed' field and it only has 50 Hrs. on it.

[Coalsmoke]

I guess I was just trying to say that while I might not be out welding pipe every day with my TB, if I would happen to get a job (perhaps this summer at one of the ethanol plants goin up/getting finished) a lot of that stuff is either tig root or 6010 root w/7018 fill and cap. It just popped into my head that I just went and spent close to $8K (so far) on my rig and he's sayin (the way I perceived it) is that my welder couldn't handle it, or I wouldn't get a job because of it.

I think that's the main reason I got so perturbed about the situation.

Edit: As to the engine problems, are there problems with the Kohler engines? I ordered mine with the Kohler and haven't had a problem with it..granted I am just somewhat gettin started in the 'self employed' field and it only has 50 Hrs. on it.

Just run the TB 302 until you have proven to yourself that you need to upgrade. Until then all you're doing is losing sleep over it.

[Coalsmoke]

Coalsmoke- What kind of problems or glitches did your TB have? just wondering.

Glitches that left me with no engine run or no weld output for a few minutes, sometimes for a quarter hour, and a couple of times it had to go into the shop. the last time it was in the shop for 3 weeks i had no choice but to buy another machine or go out of business. Miller always treated me well though and made me feel like customer #1.

[Coalsmoke]

Coal, you just had a bad one.

Yep, I would be inclined to agree with you. Someone has to get the Friday afternoon / Monday morning machine, or it could be that I ran it too hard.

[nocheepgas]

I think all the Millers I've used over the years (probably 8-9 units) have had the Onan engine in them. Several years ago I heard they weren't going to put them in anymore due to emissions requirements, and looking at the available engine line-up in their products, it looks like it was true. Haven't had any experience with the Kohlers.

[welderdude402]

When I was deciding on a machine, I looked into the engines and found that Ex-mark (lawn mower manufacturer) use Kawasaki and Kohler engines and my brother-in-law works there and said that the Kohlers usually ran better and longer than the Kawasakis. Plus they have longer life expectancy than the Kawis.

I know I did over-react to the situation a bit, but I have used approximately 5-6 Trailblazers and a couple Bobcats. I will honestly say that I haven't used but one or two Lincolns (engine drive, wish I could remember models) and I thought that the Millers out performed the Lincolns.

[davedarragh]

TB vs SA 200

Briefly, the arc volts of an SA 200 compared to a TB 302 are conisderably more. Volts = electrical pressure. In circumferential welding, one is always "fighting" gravitiy. The 40+ arc volts of the SA 200 makes the job much smoother.

The TB 302 is basically a service truck/plant maintenance machine. It does have excellent CV ouput, but the 4 pole/3 phase alternator style generator just isn't big enough for 12 hour continuous cross country pipe welding with 7/32" rods.


I'll elaborate a little more on this tomorrow, but your new neighbor is right.

Dave

[Finney]

welderdude402,
I am a ex pipline welder. Both of my sons are pipliners, son#1 a helper and son#2 a welder.
I own a 302TB and the limiting factor is the engine. I still test and running 3/16" & 1/4" 8010 rods will pull the guts out of the Kholer engine. I work in building trades now and the TB is one of the best machines out there. Still welding pipe but different processes. Largest rod we use is 1/8"/ 5/32 7018
with a lot of tig, wire and AC for aluminum.
We bought a Vantage over the PipePro due to the difference in cost for son#2s truck and have been very pleased with it. The truck we are building now will get the Vantage from the old truck and we are planning on trying out a Pro300 to put back on the old truck.
As far as stick rod jobs the old SA200's are some of the best machine out there if someone can set the OCV's and the rack. Some of these machine need the adjustments and some do not. The biggest drawback to these machines do not have CV which can be solved with a CV box.