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  • GMAW when to push or pull?

    Just curious on some input.
    When mig welding, when would it be appropriate to use a push technique as oppose to a pull technique and vise versa?
    Thanks guys.
    Regards.

  • #2
    Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean to be rude. (Rough day at the "office")

    Knowing when to push and pull is something that comes from experience. It's all about seeing, interpereting and understanding what the puddle wants to get the desired effect. Practice and try different angles, see what you get. That is really the best way.

    Some general guidelines:
    -Push= smoother flatter bead with less penetration. Usually a little higher travel speed.
    -Pull= Taller more peaked bead with greater penetration and more build up. Usually a little slower travel spee.

    Of course, since the angle is infinitely variable, it's up to you the welder how much or which traits you want.

    Practice, practice, practice.
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    • #3
      Very well put shorerider.
      Be safe
      Jeff

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      • #4
        Another angle to look at:

        Push = more heat, more "dig" into the parent metal
        Pull= Less heat put directly into the weld

        If you are welding heavier plate (3/16"plus) or lots of fillet welds, you may have better results by pushing.
        For light guage steel (especially butt welds) you may find that pulling the puddle will work better-- you stand a little less chance of burning through the thin stuff.

        As for the actual angles, there is no substitute for experience. Practice practice practice!!
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        • #5
          Generally.....

          Push on the thin stuff, pull on the thick.
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          • #6
            Now the last 2 posts say the exact opposite. I wasnt getting the hang of using a wire so I bought a stick.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by wronghand View Post
              Another angle to look at:

              Push = more heat, more "dig" into the parent metal
              Pull= Less heat put directly into the weld

              If you are welding heavier plate (3/16"plus) or lots of fillet welds, you may have better results by pushing.
              For light guage steel (especially butt welds) you may find that pulling the puddle will work better-- you stand a little less chance of burning through the thin stuff.

              As for the actual angles, there is no substitute for experience. Practice practice practice!!
              Sorry to say it but you've got it backwards.
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              • #8
                Well........this is really clear......

                I'd also like to know which is which..............Thanks
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rbertalotto View Post
                  Well........this is really clear......

                  I'd also like to know which is which..............Thanks

                  You can't be serious? Try it for yourself. Heck you cannot believe anything on the internet.

                  That said my experience is a tad different. I say always push when possible. If the material is thick then I turn up the heat. When there are times because of positioning etc. that it isn't practical to push then I re-adjust the heat and do whatever I must to weld.
                  I've worked with a few guys who always pulled and I must say they had more quality problems than most other people.
                  I worked at one place where we had to push vertical down on aluminum and I never could feel really comfortable with that and usually kept perpendicular.
                  Your mileage WILL vary and make you the unique craftsman you are

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                  • #10
                    See....That's what I'm talking about.

                    I've always pushed on all my welding. The very few times that I had to pull, because of position, the welds were not as nice. If I wasn't getting the results I expected, I adjusted the heat.

                    I think this comes from many years of O/A welding.
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                    • #11
                      Classic thread.
                      Last edited by Vicegrip; 01-21-2009, 06:33 AM.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rbertalotto View Post
                        See....That's what I'm talking about.

                        I've always pushed on all my welding. The very few times that I had to pull, because of position, the welds were not as nice. If I wasn't getting the results I expected, I adjusted the heat.

                        I think this comes from many years of O/A welding.

                        I think it just comes from the instincts of being a good welder with some exp.
                        The point I was making is my exp is different from some but the internet isn't all that great of a place for answers simply because you hear every kind of answer there is. I hope you don't feel I was picking on you either btw. I am a true hypocrite as far as that is concerned
                        Not sure if you have any specified welding codes or whatever that specifies this push or pull question.
                        To me it is sorta like pushing the electrode when stick welding...it ain't normal but sometimes you gotta do it. (not talking about uphill but flat etc.)
                        I am sure there is somebody who will chime in and enlighten us tho.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                          I am sure there is somebody who will chime in and enlighten us tho.
                          You are correct in that it is all about experience, knowing what you're looking at through your lens, and how to correctly manipulate what you see into what you want and what you need.

                          I have pushed SMAW, pulled GMAW on aluminum, fed filler behind the torch in GTAW, and so on.

                          Sometimes you just have to do it. There is no other option. I know that. That should be stressed a lot more to any new welder.

                          That said, I will explain it how it was explained to me at Caterpillar. I haven't seen anything to discredit what I was told, but I do not hold it as the end all/be all of the push pull argument either. It works for me, and that's all I really care about. What works for me, may or may not work for any of you.

                          GENERALLY, when you push, travel speed is increased. As such, your arc tends to run up in the front 1/3 of the puddle. This results in shallower penetration, and a wider, flatter bead. It also inputs less heat into the base material, which is important when welding on thin material/sheetmetal.

                          GENERALLY, when you pull, travel speed is reduced. As such, your arc tends to run in the middle to the rear 1/3 of the puddle. Since there is more molten metal from the puddle out ahead of your arc, it slightly preheats the base material resulting in deeper penetration. Bead profile is deeper, narrower, and more pronounced.

                          Anyway, that's how it was explained to me. It won't hurt my feelings either if you don't believe it. It is after all, a generalization.
                          Last edited by Number 1; 01-21-2009, 05:35 PM. Reason: Typo
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                          • #14
                            Here's how it works.

                            Push on the thinner material to prevent burn through.
                            Pull to get deeper penetration. These are at a given weld parameter.

                            Because the gun angle during a "push" is always directed at the unwelded, cooler basemetal, the weld will have less penetration.
                            When in a "pull", the gun is directed at the weld puddle that is already hot and therefore the added weld time directed at the hot puddle gives deeper penetration.

                            This info and cross section pics are available in our GMAW weld book.

                            Have fun!
                            Andy

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ASKANDY View Post
                              Here's how it works.

                              Push on the thinner material to prevent burn through.
                              Pull to get deeper penetration. These are at a given weld parameter.

                              Because the gun angle during a "push" is always directed at the unwelded, cooler basemetal, the weld will have less penetration.
                              When in a "pull", the gun is directed at the weld puddle that is already hot and therefore the added weld time directed at the hot puddle gives deeper penetration.

                              This info and cross section pics are available in our GMAW weld book.

                              Have fun!
                              Andy
                              Sounds familiar.....
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