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Will I need more than the Diversion 165?

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  • Will I need more than the Diversion 165?

    Right now I own a Miller 210 MIG and love it. It has never let me down in anything I have asked it to do. I mostly just do car repair and modifications and have been using the 210 up until now for bodywork, frame reinforcement, exhausts, etc.

    Before I bought the 210 I really wanted to go the TIG route, but saw the MIG fitting my immediate needs at that time. Well some time has gone by and I have that itch again. Anyone else notice how expensive that itch can be?

    What I really want to do with the TIG is fab my own headers for a turbo motor, and who knows maybe one day after 1,000s of hours of practice may even attempt a CM rollcage if my welding is up to it (safety first though). It appears the Div165 would be sufficient for me since the thickness of the metal I will be welding will probably be just over 1/8" max and I really do not see needing to go thicker, but I am sure something may come up. As with most people, $$$ is a concern, but I could probably get the Syncrowave 200 for an extra $800 or so over the Div165.

    For my intentions, does it make sense to spend the extra $800, or should I just use some of that money for filler rod, gas, foot pedal and save a little bit? I like that the Div is portable, but I probably do not see any need for that (at least now). This may be nice if I could practice my welding in the warm basement now that it is getting cold here in NJ, but not sure if that would create issues with fumes into the house.

    Also, no need for the stick option, do not plan on using that.

    Any suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks

    Greg
    Last edited by pdog; 10-30-2008, 06:15 AM.
    ________________
    Greg

    Miller 210
    Diversion 165

  • #2
    its always nice to have a little extra power, you can always turn it down but max is max. that said. you know your needs and budget best.
    i was thinking if you have a spool gun for the MM210, that would cover the thicker aluminum so the div. would be fine for the smaller stuff you re-ferd to. keeping in mind the duty cycle, you should be ok with the div.
    keep in mind the Miller welders keep there value well, so if you need to upgrade you will probably not lose much $$ for the time you get to learn on it. if you know you will out-grow it for shore, then go up now to the syncro200. both are excellent options, and aether will likely cover your needs if speed is not a concern the duty cycle of the div. should be ok as well.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped
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    • #3
      Originally posted by pdog View Post
      What I really want to do with the TIG is fab my own headers for a turbo motor, and who knows maybe one day after 1,000s of hours of practice may even attempt a CM rollcage if my welding is up to it (safety first though). It appears the Div165 would be sufficient for me since the thickness of the metal I will be welding will probably be just over 1/8" max and I really do not see needing to go thicker, but I am sure something may come up. As with most people, $$$ is a concern, but I could probably get the Syncrowave 200 for an extra $800 or so over the Div165.
      Things to consider: How much power you have available... the $800 can turn into a lot more mighty quick if you need to upsize the service, or add a new high current circuit, for the synchrowave. Putting the same money into an inverter based machine may be a better choice if this is an issue (note the word MAY).

      Will you need to do stick? The synchro will do stick, the Diversion won't.

      Will you need to move the machine? The synchro is NOT portable.

      Do you need the AC (will you be TIGging aluminum?) If not, and you are certain you are not, then a DC only option may make sense.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks guys, good points. No need to upgrade power in the garage, already have a dedicated line for the 210. I haven't seen what the max steel thickness would be for the Diversion, but will take a look. It just seemed to fit my requirements nicely, that is why I considered it. I usually like to overkill my tool purchases for the "future" need of more power, but times are a little tight and would probably prefer to get started with the cheaper unit first. As you mentioned fun4now, they do have a good resale value, so that is something I will consider as well.

        Thanks guys.
        ________________
        Greg

        Miller 210
        Diversion 165

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        • #5
          The line for the 210 is not the same as one for a 200 synch, a Dynasty yes.

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          • #6
            Synch takes more juice I take it? If so I can wire it, the electric box is right there and I have plenty of empty spaces available to run another line. The line for the 210 was easy, only a couple of feet from the electric box.
            ________________
            Greg

            Miller 210
            Diversion 165

            Comment


            • #7
              Just one thing to add

              If you're going to be fabbing on the vehicle (ie:rollcage), skip the foot pedal and get a fingertip control instead. Foot pedal is tough to use unless you're sitting or standing in a comfortable position.

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              • #8
                200 synch requires 60A service I believe.

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                • #9
                  Thanks guys. I could wire the 60 amp. The house had electric heating at one point, then converted over to gas so there are plenty of slots available

                  Good point on the finger control. I figured the Div165 comes with it, but I could get the foot control to get started learning how to tig.
                  ________________
                  Greg

                  Miller 210
                  Diversion 165

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I personally would go with a Syncro 200 over a 165 amp machine. One thing about the 200 Syncro is that it has a very nice soft AC arc. Great arc starts and is a well proven machine. Duty-cyle is better too. Weld with both if possible. There is a 165 in my welding store now but I have not tried that one out. Torch is a bit odd in my hand but might fit you ok?? Don't discount the stick feature on the Syncro either, it adds a lot of flexibility to your shop.

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                    • #11
                      Given that you can wire for 60A, this is a no brainer for the synch unless you need portability.

                      More max current and AC for aluminum make it no contest.

                      The dimension is more for people who need something they can drag around to jobsites and weld process piping with.

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                      • #12
                        You guys like spending my money, huh? Just kidding.

                        Like I mentioned, the portability isn't a huge issue. Since I have only tigged a couple of times in a class I took at a vocational school, I cannot remember the fumes that were produced and if they were significant. Is this something that could be done in a basement? That would give me a lot more room to setup a nice welding table, stay warm since it is heated and practice my @ss off. If that was acceptable, then I would go with the Div165. Guess I could muscle the 200 downstairs with a friend.
                        ________________
                        Greg

                        Miller 210
                        Diversion 165

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I will spend it for you, get a Dyn, 45# and runs from 30A service. Thats my next machine on the wish list, the adjustable freq makes you feel like a super hero.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pdog View Post
                            Is this something that could be done in a basement? That would give me a lot more room to setup a nice welding table, stay warm since it is heated and practice my @ss off.
                            No issues with TIG in a basement, other than the normal concerns of flammables, as long as there is sufficient air circulation. Of course, that associated things like grinding can be an issue. I have TIGged in basements, kitchens, and even a bedroom or two. As long as the material is clean, no chlorinated solvents are around (UV can break these down into a toxic form), etc., there are no toxic gasses released. The shielding gas will displace the air (and lower the oxygen level), and you can asphyxiate if the oxygen level drops too low.

                            edit: I cannot add enough emphasis... In a basement you NEED TO BE CONCERNED that there is sufficient ventilation to insure that argon does not displace enough oxygen to be a hazard.

                            The shielding gas (argon, usually) will not be in great enough concentration to be a problem in most cases. It can collect in closed spaces, especially below grade. Once well mixed into the air, it won't seperate back out on it's own, but tends to collect in low spots, like basement floors, when released in bulk, like from a TIG torch, if not mixed. You can calculate the oxygen concentration fairly easily, based on flow rate and room volume. (Example: 15CFH, in a 10X10ft space with 7ft ceiling.... the room volume is 700 cubic feet, and in one hour, with moderate mixing and no circulation of fresh air into the space, the oxygen level will be reduced from approximately 20.8% (sea level) to approximately 20.3% in one hour, if the welding is continuous. This is above the 19.5% action level under OSHA and is considered to be safe.) Be aware, not only of your flow rate, but also of any leaks. If you have a 60CF bottle, then the MOST that can be released is 60CF, and in any but the smallest space, if the entire bottle released in a bad leak (maybe over an hour or two), there is little worry. A 220CF bottle in a small space is more of a concern.

                            Even in a large basement, I would be sure that there is some air circulation to avoid accumulation of Argon. A small exhaust pulling air from near the floor venting to the outdoors should be sufficient. My basement is about 1200CuFt, and, using the gas monitor from work, noted no drop in oxygen percentage (meter reads to 0.1%, and was freshly calibrated) during a several hour job that used about 50CuFt of argon, even without the vent fan running, but the space isn't real tight, so some natural circulation occurs through things like the water heater stack and the air handler for the house.
                            Last edited by enlpck; 10-30-2008, 03:50 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Minimal fumes with a TIG set-up. Have at it down in the basement.

                              I would be looking at the Syncrowave or Dynasty welders instead of the 165. While it may work for your needs right now it may come in short later on. A Miller TIG may hold its resale value well, but I don't know if I would be the same deal for a bottom of the line welder like the 165...maybe if you found somebody wanting to get into hobby welding that is clueless. Not to say the 165 doesn't fill many peoples' bill, but without the stick option being available and having such a low powered top end it will narrow the list of potential buyers considerably. Add that to the number of other 165 owners trading up and you may not see that great a resale value after all.
                              Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                              Miller DialArc 250
                              Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                              Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                              Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                              Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                              South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                              Logan 7" shaper
                              Ellis 3000 band saw
                              Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                              Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                              3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                              Lots of dust bunnies
                              Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

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