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  • #91
    Well Kevin, you seemed to have forgotten my rolling a 24' S12x35# i beam on my foot while I was working on getting it ready to lift into position this past spring. I've made mistakes and acknowledged them. When that happened, you made a comment about wishing it had landed on my head. What a nice guy you are! Ya wonder why I could care less how good of a welder you are.

    Joey, you're right - I never used the tig we had at the school shop. I was busy running the mill and lathes. Fabrication doesn't need to include welding. Would you consider someone who runs a press brake and shear to not be a fabricator? Someone who can use a drill press and other hand tools to make assemblies is not a fabricator? I started as a wood worker (when I was 5), proceeded to auto mechanics, got into electronics, got into creating suspension systems (which were welded with O/A - my first learned welding skill), then that got me interested in making sparks, so I took SMAW classes at the tech school - that was `96. In `98 I got my MM130xp, but I had been welding at other friends houses before buying that machine.

    You keep going back to your one line about my crappy chinese drill press. It's a pile of junk - I'll be the first to admit it. But, it hadn't even arrived when you guys were all in arms about it. I gave it the benefit of the doubt and it turned out to be a bad investment.

    My bandsaw is still at my parents house, not here in my shop, and I have a lot of other work. I have 2 wells saws at school I can use right now so I'm not in that big of hurry to complete it. I also have free precision cutting at my steel yard, so in effect I have someone else's machines and their labor at my disposal, so it's not a priority. I'm also torn between keeping it a scissor type or going twin column.

    So if you want to keep contesting the timeline of things, be my guest. In my parents basement, I had a 7' ceiling and everything that was to be heated needed to make it through a 32" door (it took me several years to get my dad to let me put a 240v outlet in the house because the original service was 100A). Inside I had about 100sq ft of space but I made do with it for a long time. Now I have my own house, my own shop, my own machines, my own welders, and my own business.

    I passed on an ellis 1800 for a grand 2 days ago too. I simply don't want one.
    Syncrowave 250DX
    Invison 354MP
    XR Control and 30A

    Airco MED20 feeder
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
    Smith O/A rig
    And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

    Comment


    • #92
      Now its a SCHOOL shop? See that's the problem with you. You tried to come off as a salty old dog, and got busted. You'll never admit it though.By the way my opinion of people that stand in front of a press brake all day or a shear is that they are machine operators. My brother ran the shear at a sheetmetal shop for 6 months after we left the GM plant. He is no fabricator, not by a long shot. That no different than running the injection molders at our old plant. MACHINE OPERATOR. Its production monkey work. No fifferent than a production welder that welds the same part all day as it comes down the line. That guy isnt a fabricator either.

      As to my one line about the drill press, there are PLENTY of other depictions of your brilliance over the last few years. All anyone has to do is search the various forums for your username. Thers at least a half dozen, but I dont need to post them all here. Its been done in other threads.

      Comment


      • #93
        Dang,

        Seems Fishy makes it a habit of showing up at a gunfight bearing his trusty Swiss Army knife.

        Sberry,

        Agree with what you said about being an owner of a piece of equipment doesn't make you an expert on that equipment. With that said, did you ever read KB's evaluation of the Dynasty 350 where he compared it to his previous Dynasty 300. That didn't come from a guy who "don't know nuttin about them".
        Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200 DX
        Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
        Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
        Hobart HH187
        Dialarc 250 AC/DC
        Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
        Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
        PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
        Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
        Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
        More grinders than hands

        Comment


        • #94
          Joey, I have access to bandsaws at school (doall verticals too). I have an excello mill and a voest lathe here at my shop. Being able to use a machine doesn't make me owner to it, and I never claimed to own any of the other saws I've run.

          You also got off on the wrong bent with the operator nonsense. I was handed prints and told "make 6" (or 20) of whatever was on them. I wasn't standing there running a machine someone else set up, I was doing all the layout, setup, and actual processes. I'd call that fabrication.

          Right now I am in a 2 year machinist program, that doesn't make me a machinist just yet, but I'm working on it.
          Syncrowave 250DX
          Invison 354MP
          XR Control and 30A

          Airco MED20 feeder
          Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
          Smith O/A rig
          And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

          Comment


          • #95
            Jimmy Obama, Not even worth arguing with. Just like Kevin said earlier.... You get caught and try to cover up with something different. Remember when you tried to convince me that your Milwaukee saw was just as good as a shear? Now your a sheetmetal guy too huh? I got news for ya. A two year program dont make ya a machinist either......

            Comment


            • #96
              I am not wanting to get all that involved in this swamp of a thread but I would like to point out something inconsistent.
              Simply being able to make a part on a machine such as a press brake or whatever means you are simply able to successfully run that machine as expected. They hand you a print and you can do it without needing someone to hold your hand...good for you. If you could not do that I would have trouble allowing/paying you to run the machine in the first place.

              Being a fabricator is a level you achieve, just like you don't run a lathe or mill doing machine work and consider yourself a machinist. You might be fabricating but it doesn't make you a fabricator.
              You cannot praise the merits of becoming a machinist and then minimize what it entails to be a journeyman fabricator. No more than participating on a forum make you an author Others may see it different but having spent a good deal of my life as a fabricator I realize that I would not make a pimple on the @$$ of a top rate fabricator in some arenas.
              That is why I love my job as a welder/fabricator but if you don't know where you stand chances are you really don't know where you're going IMO

              www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
              Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
              MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
              Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
              Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

              Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
              Miller 30-A Spoolgun
              Miller WC-115-A
              Miller Spectrum 300
              Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
              Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

              Comment


              • #97
                Jimmy thinks us welders are dumb. Hes said it numerous times.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                  Mac, I was the one who said using the max output would be the way to figure out which phase the machine was running on. I didn't come into a max output argument and then try to say duty cycle - it was MY point I was making.

                  20% duty cycle is what an econotig has. To use that as a selling point for an industrial machine's max capacity is pretty silly IMO. Oh, but that's the duty cycle at 200A on the dynasty. Oops, forgot about that.
                  ...
                  Speaking of derailing the intention of this thread - you're bringing hobbyist level use into a discussion about the merits of 3 phase. How many hobbyists have access to it? And unless working in a plant, how many pro's even have access to it out on job sites?

                  This is also real Christianly conduct of you mr missionary. Would Jesus jump all over someone he merely disagreed with? I didn't think so. You must be holding a grudge because I haven't been anywhere near a scope yet.

                  So the new dynasty came out last month. I guess I missed that. You would think they'd change their sales literature to reflect it.
                  Um, why I have to keep correcting what you said I said? I didn't say you brought up duty cycles. I said you brought up "rated outputs" in an argument about "maximum outputs," and you have YET to demonstrate that you know the difference. Have you ever read past page 1 on a product specifications sheet?

                  You then assert the duty cycle of an EconoTig without specifying whether that is at rated output or maximum output, which makes a huge difference. Since it apparently doesn't matter to you, then you should also remember that a Miller Thunderbolt and a Miller MM140 and similar machines also all have only 20% duty cycles. Nothing productive ever gets made with those machines, either, I suppose?

                  I never brought up anything in this thread toward you that wasn't a straightforward correction that could have been handled with a simple: "Oops!" Feel free to drag it out, though.

                  You'll argue with Dynasty experts about Dynasties, electricians about electricity, and while I've never claimed to be a "missionary," you'll presume to argue with one about Jesus? Read Matthew chapter 23 before you tell me what Jesus would or wouldn't say to someone who was wrong.

                  I don't need to wait until you get a scope. I already spent three hours of my personal time setting one up and getting my camera on a tripod for the 1/2 second shutter speed and proved that hot-to-neutral was a full sine wave. Everything else you said in that thread was dependent on your assertion that it was not. Last I saw, my question to you was the last thing in that other thread and is still unanswered. But maybe you think my time to PROVE you were wrong was nothing more than "belittling" your arguments.

                  We've also demonstrated that even the old Dynasty's product literature that you linked also proves you wrong. Who cares if the new one does, too?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                    Yes, it was my mistake to not go into full detail on what evidence would present itself when running an inverter on single vs three phase. However, my premise remains the same and still is not disputed based on the fact that there will be noticeable changes in the machines performance when the input power type is changed.
                    ...
                    Did I miss something? I thought your premise was very clearly that "maximum outputs differ." Now somehow that simply means "performance changes?"

                    If you correct yourself, admit you were wrong about maximum outputs, than this discussion is over, and everybody's happy.

                    Comment


                    • WOW!!! This has turned out to be an 12 page train wreck! Who ever would have thought this is what would come of such a seemingly small question?
                      Well my take on the single vs three phase: Our shop recently moved to a new building and this allowed me the opportunity to experience the difference.
                      The first machine was a Miller Shopmaster 300 (transformer based machine), I didn't notice much if any difference in AC or DC GTAW ,possibly a smother arc but not a significant difference. DC SMAW I DID notice a difference, we don't do much stick welding but I immediately noticed improved arc characteristics. I wish I could blame it on a huge increase in skill level but then I'd be telling a lie! The other machine I use at work is an XMT 350MP (inverter based), we run 30A spoolguns welding aluminum, I didn't notice any difference in it's GMAW capabilities.
                      Now one of the next subjects of this train wr... er I mean thread was a difference in machine characteristics. I agree with steve on this one, each machine has it's own characteristics just like women... but we'll leave that one for a different thread/ forum!
                      SMAW characteristics between the Shopmaster 300 and the XMT 350MP are very different. I always used to wonder if the old SA200's were really "ALL THAT" or if it was a folk lore thing? Well after comparing the Shopmaster and the XMT 350MP I've come to the conclusion that there probably is some warrant in what I've heard of the mystical grey beasts. Does that mean you can't make a good weld unless you have one? NOPE! As previously mentioned a good tradesman can take a crappy tool and get the job done, might not be as fast, certainly not as easy but he can still get it done.

                      A good welding machine is like a good woman, once you got one you love you better hold on tight, but if you don't hold on it will forever haunt you!!!
                      Last edited by c wagner; 10-16-2008, 07:07 PM. Reason: Changed to 12 pages!!!
                      at home:
                      2012 325 Trailblazer EFI with Excel power
                      2007 302 Trailblazer with the Robin SOLD
                      2008 Suitcase 12RC
                      Spoolmatic 30A
                      WC-24
                      2009 Dynasty 200DX
                      2000 XMT 304
                      2008 Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
                      Sold:MM130XP
                      Sold:MM 251
                      Sold:CST 280

                      at work:
                      Invision 350MP
                      Dynasty 350
                      Millermatic 350P
                      Retired:Shopmaster 300 with a HF-251

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                        ...Mac still hasn't empirically disproven my assertion about the full wave rectification off 120v ac. ...
                        You are correct here. What I did do though was empirically prove that hot-to-neutral was a FULL-WAVE, which proved you wrong on the first half. The rest is just mathematics.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                          I am not wanting to get all that involved in this swamp of a thread but I would like to point out something inconsistent.
                          Simply being able to make a part on a machine such as a press brake or whatever means you are simply able to successfully run that machine as expected. They hand you a print and you can do it without needing someone to hold your hand...good for you. If you could not do that I would have trouble allowing/paying you to run the machine in the first place.

                          Being a fabricator is a level you achieve, just like you don't run a lathe or mill doing machine work and consider yourself a machinist. You might be fabricating but it doesn't make you a fabricator.
                          You cannot praise the merits of becoming a machinist and then minimize what it entails to be a journeyman fabricator. No more than participating on a forum make you an author Others may see it different but having spent a good deal of my life as a fabricator I realize that I would not make a pimple on the @$$ of a top rate fabricator in some arenas.
                          That is why I love my job as a welder/fabricator but if you don't know where you stand chances are you really don't know where you're going IMO
                          When I first read your post I was ready to dispute what you had to say... however when I re-read it I think we are both on the same page. I took offense to an earlier comment about a press brake operator being simply a machine operator. Yes in some instances in ANY job, they could train a monkey to do it. HOWEVER when you start doing one off, high precision stuff that's what separates the "tradesman" from the simple "operators".

                          I was 5 years old when I first drove a truck (supervised of course!), I successfully drove the truck the required distance with no major problems ( the clutch might think otherwise), unfortunately this did not qualify me for the 1981 Indy 500!
                          at home:
                          2012 325 Trailblazer EFI with Excel power
                          2007 302 Trailblazer with the Robin SOLD
                          2008 Suitcase 12RC
                          Spoolmatic 30A
                          WC-24
                          2009 Dynasty 200DX
                          2000 XMT 304
                          2008 Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
                          Sold:MM130XP
                          Sold:MM 251
                          Sold:CST 280

                          at work:
                          Invision 350MP
                          Dynasty 350
                          Millermatic 350P
                          Retired:Shopmaster 300 with a HF-251

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by c wagner View Post
                            When I first read your post I was ready to dispute what you had to say... however when I re-read it I think we are both on the same page. I took offense to an earlier comment about a press brake operator being simply a machine operator. Yes in some instances in ANY job, they could train a monkey to do it. HOWEVER when you start doing one off, high precision stuff that's what separates the "tradesman" from the simple "operators".

                            I was 5 years old when I first drove a truck (supervised of course!), I successfully drove the truck the required distance with no major problems ( the clutch might think otherwise), unfortunately this did not qualify me for the 1981 Indy 500!
                            Yup....no offense to the tradesman...that's for sure.
                            I did things when I started out basically the same as I do'em now but the results sure do seem to to look a whole bunch better nowadays

                            But for further clarification I would not call an "expert" press brake guru a fabricator, nor do I feel a fabricator needs to be an expert press brake operator to be an "expert" fabricator

                            www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                            MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                            Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                            Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                            Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                            Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                            Miller WC-115-A
                            Miller Spectrum 300
                            Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                            Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                              Well Kevin, you seemed to have forgotten my rolling a 24' S12x35# i beam on my foot while I was working on getting it ready to lift into position this past spring. I've made mistakes and acknowledged them. When that happened, you made a comment about wishing it had landed on my head. What a nice guy you are! Ya wonder why I could care less how good of a welder you are.
                              Now your putting words in my mouth? Would you mind providing me the link to the post where I said this?
                              Dynasty 350DX
                              Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
                              MM 350P
                              MM Passport Plus
                              Spectrum 375 Extreme
                              08' Trailblazer 302

                              Comment


                              • I would like to reiterate an earlier post by Pumpkin and attest that It is the welder that makes the weld , not the machine, no matter which machine is used. And Ya I can tell the difference from machine to machine.

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