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  • #76
    See? Told you you wouldn't be wrong. All you had to do was change the definition of "s*x," er, I mean "maximum output."

    20% is a very useful duty cycle in non-production work. Some of us do that.

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    • #77
      [QUOTE=Iron Head;161867]That’s fine, rest assured I have enough friends to last me the rest of my life. You will not be missed.


      [QUOTE]

      Thanks.
      Miller Syncrowave 200
      Milermatic 252
      Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstone"

      Comment


      • #78
        Mac, I was the one who said using the max output would be the way to figure out which phase the machine was running on. I didn't come into a max output argument and then try to say duty cycle - it was MY point I was making.

        20% duty cycle is what an econotig has. To use that as a selling point for an industrial machine's max capacity is pretty silly IMO. Oh, but that's the duty cycle at 200A on the dynasty. Oops, forgot about that.

        Having owned a 250A mig machine with a 100% duty cycle at 180A for 3 years, I realized I rarely push wire anywhere near that hot (250A). So I didn't mind that the invision was only 60%@225A. If I had considered it with the intention of running it at 300A, it wouldn't have been purchased.

        Speaking of derailing the intention of this thread - you're bringing hobbyist level use into a discussion about the merits of 3 phase. How many hobbyists have access to it? And unless working in a plant, how many pro's even have access to it out on job sites?

        This is also real Christianly conduct of you mr missionary. Would Jesus jump all over someone he merely disagreed with? I didn't think so. You must be holding a grudge because I haven't been anywhere near a scope yet.

        So the new dynasty came out last month. I guess I missed that. You would think they'd change their sales literature to reflect it.
        Syncrowave 250DX
        Invison 354MP
        XR Control and 30A

        Airco MED20 feeder
        Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
        Smith O/A rig
        And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Fishy Jim
          Mac, I was the one who said using the max output would be the way to figure out which phase the machine was running on. I didn't come into a max output argument and then try to say duty cycle - it was MY point I was making.
          Jim, here is exactly what YOU said that got THIS part of the thread going..


          Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
          The inverters max power is greatly reduced on single phase. Without ever looking at the machine, I think you could get a really good idea which input power was being used by simply turning up the heat as high as it goes and seeing which melted more metal. Same machine, same operator, same input voltage = vastly different output based on input being single or three phase.
          It seems like you were under the impression that max output was somehow related to whether the input voltage was single or 3 phase. That is what YOU said. YOU were wrong. You might not have said "duty cycle" but that is in fact what I pointed out to you that suffers in the single vs 3 phase input power, not max output. Also, YOU were the one that copied and pasted the "rated" outputs of the Dynasty 350DX and not the max outputs. This information would have been incredibly easy to find had you taken the time to do so before you made the statement that you did.

          ,
          Last edited by KB Fabrications; 10-16-2008, 11:24 AM.
          Dynasty 350DX
          Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
          MM 350P
          MM Passport Plus
          Spectrum 375 Extreme
          08' Trailblazer 302

          Comment


          • #80
            So.... mr. fish, what machine would you have purchased if you planned on running at 300 amps? You dont have three phase do you? What three phase machines have you ran, since you have so much experience with them?

            I have the same Invision as you. I also have three phase power. All my machines are hooked up to three phase, except my 251. I have used my 300 DX and my Spectrum 2050 on single phase, both at full output. I will say that it seems like my plasma cuts nicer on thicker material using three phase power.

            Comment


            • #81
              Yes, it was my mistake to not go into full detail on what evidence would present itself when running an inverter on single vs three phase. However, my premise remains the same and still is not disputed based on the fact that there will be noticeable changes in the machines performance when the input power type is changed.

              I also should've expected as much out of you guys to jump all over it.

              I'm in complete agreement that "the arc" will not be any different as it's simply not an effected parameter of the differences between single and three phase.

              Mr bass/huxtable, I won't respond to you either here or on toolbox. I don't care what you think of me and I don't care to converse with you. I find it remarkable you think the only machines I've ran are ones I own. Every factory or job shop I've ever worked in (besides my own) has had three phase. Both tech schools I've attended also had three phase. I've used more three phase equipment than I have single.
              Syncrowave 250DX
              Invison 354MP
              XR Control and 30A

              Airco MED20 feeder
              Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
              Smith O/A rig
              And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

              Comment


              • #82
                Fishy,

                As a relative newcomer to this discussion, I can't frigging believe you're sitting there arguing with a guy (KB) who's owned every Dynasty that Miller has ever made. A guy, who, by the way makes his living, welding with one every day.

                This thread, along with just about every other one where you've posted, has convinced me that you are the proverbial guy who you "don't confuse with facts, your mind's made up".

                Disputing KB about a Dynasty is about as rediculous as arguing with MAC about electrical.

                It's one thing to be controversial about things (been there, done that), but at least try to get your facts straight before pulling the trigger.
                Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                Dynasty 200 DX
                Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                Hobart HH187
                Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                More grinders than hands

                Comment


                • #83
                  Every factory or job shop I've ever worked in (besides my own) has had three phase.

                  James,
                  While that quote does make it sound seemingly impressive at first glance as to your wealth of experience with 3-phase welding, what was your actual job title at any of these factories or job shops? I was under the impression, maybe mistakenly...maybe not, that your were either employed in management or human resources at said places of employment. Seems like I can remember one job you wanted to do...stairs or elevator scaffolding...that your employers didn't wish to source out to your care.
                  Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                  Miller DialArc 250
                  Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                  Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                  Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                  Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                  South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                  Logan 7" shaper
                  Ellis 3000 band saw
                  Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                  Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                  3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                  Lots of dust bunnies
                  Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Roy, I've never in my life worked in HR. I left my one and only real office job (GE Fleet Services) when I was 24 to join the army as a ch-47 Chinook technician (crew chief).

                    In the past I have worked in fabrication, troubleshooting, production (which included welding), and research and development for a number of companies (some like 3M with thousands of employees, and others which were no more than someone with their own business where I was hired on as extra help, and a few mid sized companies of 100 or so people).

                    The job where I was contemplating doing the welding on the elevator safety cage, was one where I was in contention for the facilities manager position. They chose someone else, so I left and went to work for 3M.

                    Now when I was in college the second time through (when I got out of the army), I worked in system support for video editing and production, as well as doing some consulting on NLE's (such as Avid Media Composer). But what you find in film and video production, is that it's very hands on work. Post production is based on computer work these days (as telecining is done by the lab when shooting on film), but production is about as physical as you can get and involves all aspects of construction and fabrication to get the shots you want.

                    At the same time, I worked as a lab assistant in the ME programs machine shop. This was 3-4 years before I ever looked at a welding forum. But, I'm not a machinist yet. In that lab we had 3ph tig and mig machines.

                    The truth of the matter is that you've never asked what my background is and just guessed.

                    Sundown3, Mac still hasn't empirically disproven my assertion about the full wave rectification off 120v ac. Somehow this makes me wrong? Kevin can weld. Kevin can also dump a lathe like no one else. Does that make him the end all be all of resources? You seem to put people on a different pedestal than I do, and that's your choice - I disagree with their stature in your eyes.
                    Syncrowave 250DX
                    Invison 354MP
                    XR Control and 30A

                    Airco MED20 feeder
                    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                    Smith O/A rig
                    And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      [QUOTE=Fishy Jim;162052]In the past I have worked in fabrication, troubleshooting, production (which included welding), and research and development for a number of companies

                      The truth of the matter is that you've never asked what my background is and just guessed.

                      Guess you're right James...(which included welding) doesn't have the snap of "Every factory or job shop I've ever worked in (besides my own) has had three phase." Myself, well...I've even "welded" a locomotive or two to the rail on occasion...(which included welding).
                      Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                      Miller DialArc 250
                      Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                      Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                      Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                      Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                      South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                      Logan 7" shaper
                      Ellis 3000 band saw
                      Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                      Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                      3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                      Lots of dust bunnies
                      Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I will agree with the logic that owning something isnt any positive proof of knowing anything about it. I own 4 computers, dont know nuthin about them.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          You are so full of it! There are or were posts all over these forums about when you first got your econotig. I know for a fact that I and probably others also laughed and called you out at your TIG attempts on that homemade bandsaw. You stated that you were new to the TIG process. There were also posts about your attempts running SMAW.
                          Now all of a sudden your a long time fabricator? Seems awful silly that these last few years on the net running MM130s,and econotigs, and buying a chinese drill press to use as a mill that you have EVER worked as a welder or machinist at a real shop. Toying around in your parents garage/basement making kitty beds does not constitute a job shop. You are just as bad as Obama, the way you try to spin things.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                            Kevin can weld. Kevin can also dump a lathe like no one else.
                            Yep, I can. Not only that, but I can also admit when I have made a mistake and have the humility to acknowledge it openly and use the incident to help others to not make the same mistake I did. You, on the other hand, will never admit that you are wrong about anything. Instead, you will openly argue with experts in their respective fields even when multiples of them disprove, without a doubt no less, what you are trying to assert. Moreover, when you are disproven, you let that go and try to make it seem like you were trying to assert something either moderately related, or different altogether.

                            You can keep harping on the lathe all you want. Frankly, everyone knows that it's all you have, otherwise you wouldn't keep falling back on it. (you'll be happy to know that even after the fall it will still hold .0002 over 24" ) Unfortunately, it just reinforces how utterly inept you are. It stands to reason then that you would have the audactity to wonder why guy's continue to "jump all over you" about the things you choose to say.
                            Last edited by KB Fabrications; 10-16-2008, 05:02 PM.
                            Dynasty 350DX
                            Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
                            MM 350P
                            MM Passport Plus
                            Spectrum 375 Extreme
                            08' Trailblazer 302

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by KB Fabrications View Post
                              Yep, I can. Not only that, but I can also admit when I have made a mistake and have the humility to acknowledge it openly and use the incident to help others to not make the same mistake I did. You, on the other hand, will never admit that you are wrong about anything. Instead, you will openly argue with experts in their respective fields even when multiples of them disprove, without a doubt no less, what you are trying to assert. Moreover, when you are disproven, you let that go and try to make it seem like you were trying to assert something either moderately related, or different altogether.

                              You can keep harping on the lathe all you want. Frankly, everyone knows that it's all you have, otherwise you wouldn't keep falling back on it. Unfortunately, it just reinforces how utterly inept you are. It stands to reason then that you would have the audactity to wonder why guy's continue to "jump all over you" about the things you choose to say.
                              Excellent reply!!! You too Cliff.
                              Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                              Miller DialArc 250
                              Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                              Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                              Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                              Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                              South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                              Logan 7" shaper
                              Ellis 3000 band saw
                              Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                              Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                              3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                              Lots of dust bunnies
                              Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Thanks Roy, Almost got the Clausing back together. Been REAL busy lately.

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