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  • #61
    Originally posted by Sberry View Post
    It isn't that I don't think there is a difference between machines, its that I don't think most people are good enough at it to make much of a difference. Most people think they can tell the difference between beer brands, blind taste tests say otherwise.
    exactly. the placebo effect is rampant here, especially if someone thinks they could tell in a blind test if an inverter is running off 1 or 3 phase. hahahah... not going to happen.
    miller dynasty 350
    miller spectrum 1000

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by ridesideways View Post
      exactly. the placebo effect is rampant here, especially if someone thinks they could tell in a blind test if an inverter is running off 1 or 3 phase. hahahah... not going to happen.
      The inverters max power is greatly reduced on single phase. Without ever looking at the machine, I think you could get a really good idea which input power was being used by simply turning up the heat as high as it goes and seeing which melted more metal. Same machine, same operator, same input voltage = vastly different output based on input being single or three phase.

      Now if you were intending to limit the test parameters to a given welding current within the range of both phase types, then I would agree with you.

      I don't have any 3ph tig experience, but my inverter mig supply is every bit as silky as the 3ph transformer migs I've run.
      Syncrowave 250DX
      Invison 354MP
      XR Control and 30A

      Airco MED20 feeder
      Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
      Smith O/A rig
      And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

      Comment


      • #63
        I hope I don't get held responsible for the acrimony that followed my asking about the effects of three-phase power on the welding arc . . . I'm new here, and don't want to make waves. I would like to ask Iron Head (I can't get through with a PM) about those SA-200s you found for $250 each. Did they need a bunch of work? I've been web-searching, and so far the SA-200s I see are well into four figures.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by seattle smitty View Post
          I hope I don't get held responsible for the acrimony that followed my asking about the effects of three-phase power on the welding arc . . . I'm new here, and don't want to make waves. I would like to ask Iron Head (I can't get through with a PM) about those SA-200s you found for $250 each. Did they need a bunch of work? I've been web-searching, and so far the SA-200s I see are well into four figures.
          IMO you need to have one on the back of your truck and then people start coming out of the clear blue and telling you about where others are sitting.
          Like when you're at wally world or wherever.
          Doubtful your first one would be a killer deal.

          www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
          Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
          MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
          Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
          Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

          Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
          Miller 30-A Spoolgun
          Miller WC-115-A
          Miller Spectrum 300
          Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
          Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

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          • #65
            Jimmy, You have alot of experience runing 3 phase MIGs?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
              The inverters max power is greatly reduced on single phase.
              This is at best misleading and in reality, completely untrue. For instance, the maximum output of my Dynasty 350DX is 350 amps whether it be single or three-phase power. That said, the duty cycle is reduced when running single phase input power but not the max output amperage. Furthermore, the newest version of the 200DX (which I have) has identical output amperages/duty cycles between 230V single phase and 3 phase input power.
              Dynasty 350DX
              Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
              MM 350P
              MM Passport Plus
              Spectrum 375 Extreme
              08' Trailblazer 302

              Comment


              • #67
                Here's your 350 *right off the website this minute:

                Input Power

                208-575 V, 3- or 1-Phase Power
                Rated Output

                3-Phase: 300 A at 32 V, 60% Duty Cycle
                Single-Phase: 225 A at 29 V, 60% Duty Cycle

                Same duty cycle, lower output current.

                Here's the 200's literature. Same thing - output on single phase 70A lower.

                http://millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AD4-8.pdf
                Syncrowave 250DX
                Invison 354MP
                XR Control and 30A

                Airco MED20 feeder
                Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                Smith O/A rig
                And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                Comment


                • #68
                  Did you just post "rated outputs" in a discussion about maximum outputs?

                  And your Dynasty 200 link is a July 2004 product guide. He was very specific that he was discussing the latest generation of Dynasty 200, so I'll see what else I can find.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Even with that July 2004 link you provided for the Dynasty 200, if you ignore the "rated outputs" and go straight to the volt-amp curves, you'll find the exact same max output from three-phase or single-phase.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Looking at the product spec sheet for the Dynasty 350 CLEARLY shows EQUAL maximum outputs for single- and three-phase.

                      This is where you say "Oops! You're right guys, I was looking at the wrong thing; sorry!" But somehow I'm sure you'll Obama your way out of it.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by MAC702 View Post
                        Looking at the product spec sheet for the Dynasty 350 CLEARLY shows EQUAL maximum outputs for single- and three-phase.

                        This is where you say "Oops! You're right guys, I was looking at the wrong thing; sorry!" But somehow I'm sure you'll Obama your way out of it.
                        My thoughts exactly.
                        Dynasty 350DX
                        Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
                        MM 350P
                        MM Passport Plus
                        Spectrum 375 Extreme
                        08' Trailblazer 302

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                          Here's your 350 *right off the website this minute:

                          Input Power

                          208-575 V, 3- or 1-Phase Power
                          Rated Output

                          3-Phase: 300 A at 32 V, 60% Duty Cycle
                          Single-Phase: 225 A at 29 V, 60% Duty Cycle

                          Same duty cycle, lower output current.

                          Here's the 200's literature. Same thing - output on single phase 70A lower.

                          http://millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AD4-8.pdf
                          Thanks for looking up the information and validating what i originally said.

                          Originally posted by KB Fabrications
                          This is at best misleading and in reality, completely untrue. For instance, the maximum output of my Dynasty 350DX is 350 amps whether it be single or three-phase power. That said, the duty cycle is reduced when running single phase input power but not the max output amperage. Furthermore, the newest version of the 200DX (which I have) has identical output amperages/duty cycles between 230V single phase and 3 phase input power
                          Dynasty 350DX
                          Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
                          MM 350P
                          MM Passport Plus
                          Spectrum 375 Extreme
                          08' Trailblazer 302

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Ok, so if the duty cycle drops substantially (my invision 354mp has a 100A hit on the top output on single phase which is not compensated for with a reduced duty cycle beyond being dropped to 20% - which is virtually useless in tig), you still wouldn't notice the machine kick out when it hit thermal protection without looking at the dial?

                            Can you honestly say that you wouldn't notice a machine with a 20% duty cycle at full power? Weld for 2 minutes and wait for 8 to get back to work.

                            Kevin, I'm happy you get all the brand new stuff. Post up some literature supporting it if it's available to the general public, because if it isn't the point isn't valid. That it exists means nothing if you can't buy one yet.
                            Syncrowave 250DX
                            Invison 354MP
                            XR Control and 30A

                            Airco MED20 feeder
                            Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                            Smith O/A rig
                            And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                              Kevin, I'm happy you get all the brand new stuff. Post up some literature supporting it if it's available to the general public, because if it isn't the point isn't valid. That it exists means nothing if you can't buy one yet.
                              Here, read the manual for yourself. Newest version.


                              http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o2240v_mil.pdf
                              Dynasty 350DX
                              Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
                              MM 350P
                              MM Passport Plus
                              Spectrum 375 Extreme
                              08' Trailblazer 302

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                                Can you honestly say that you wouldn't notice a machine with a 20% duty cycle at full power? Weld for 2 minutes and wait for 8 to get back to work.
                                Yes, I can. I have owned different versions of all three Dynasty models and have never once hit the duty cycle on any of them. Yes I have run them all at full power and I weld all day every day, for a living. Maybe it helps that miller tests all their machines in 104 degree environments and then gives them a duty cycle rating. Maybe it helps that I live in a very moderate climate where heat is only an issue for a few days out of the year. Who knows. I have run all these machines hard and continue to be impressed by what they are capable of.
                                Dynasty 350DX
                                Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
                                MM 350P
                                MM Passport Plus
                                Spectrum 375 Extreme
                                08' Trailblazer 302

                                Comment

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