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1 vs. 3 phase

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  • #46
    If three phase is available then I would jump on it in a hearbeat. I had one of those big bullet welders, 600a and it was amazing. Sounded like a turbine when running and had a wonderful arc. I wish I had 3 phase now for my powcon. Anyone run a powcon on a rotary converter?

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    • #47
      Doesnt the Powcon run on single? I wish I had it, I would like to run a couple 75 hp motors.

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      • #48
        It does but at reduced output. will go to 375 on 3phase or 200 on single.

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        • #49
          Thats a huge leap.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Iron Head
            Trying to explain the difference between single phase and 3-phase welders to someone who has never ran both, is like trying to explain to a weekend / suit & tie welder the superior arc of a Lincoln SA-200!

            I don’t have the words, anyone?
            I feel so dirty. I'm a little more than a weekend welder but I ony have a Syncrowave 200. Guess I'l have to go and cry in my beer. Is this a "tool gloat" on your part....oh never mind. LOL.

            I don't know about three phase welders but I do iknow that there's a big difference when you're talkiing about machine tools and the motors that drive them. With a good three phase syncronous motor, you will have smoother operation, less vibration, less current usage and probably longer motor life. This is seen if you ever take a tour of a large machine shop. 95 % of them are all three phase.

            For the home shop, however, it's rather costly to have three phase pulled in. Many
            'Homies' who may have one or two three phase machines make use of 1-3 phase converters for their machines to good advantage.
            Last edited by Synchroman; 10-07-2008, 06:01 PM.
            Miller Syncrowave 200
            Milermatic 252
            Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstone"

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            • #51
              Originally posted by seattle smitty View Post
              Well now we're closing in on questions this dumb welder has:

              Do 3-phase powered welders have smoother or otherwise superior arc characteristics? Can a skilled operator make better welds with them? Iron Head's answer indicates a yes to these questions.
              the answer is "no", assuming the welder is an inverter of reasonable quality.
              miller dynasty 350
              miller spectrum 1000

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Iron Head
                Apparently not!




                When you make statement like this!

                You need to do a little research my friend!
                Just got back to you. After doing some research and reviewing some of your posts, I have determined that You are one arrogant fellow. I am not your friend.
                Last edited by Synchroman; 10-14-2008, 06:52 AM.
                Miller Syncrowave 200
                Milermatic 252
                Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstone"

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Iron Head
                  I don’t have the ability to do a side by side comparison with a 3-phase electric welder anymore, but doing a side by side comparison with a 2006 Dynasty 300 to a 1974 SA-200 welding with 6010, 5P+, 6011, 6013, and 7018! The pure DC arc, (which the 1974 has just a touch of aluminum in the mix) of the SA-200 is far superior to the DX!
                  that doesn't mean the difference is due to 3 phase vs. 1 phase.
                  miller dynasty 350
                  miller spectrum 1000

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ridesideways View Post
                    that doesn't mean the difference is due to 3 phase vs. 1 phase.
                    of course not, 'cause it can't. ol' IronHead is cumparing an engine drive with a multi-voltage/multi-phase line powered machine, which he hasn't made clear was even running on 3 phase.

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                    • #55
                      One of the threads was a guy working in a nuke using 150 Max, said he will have to go home and run it side by side with his SA250 to see what the difference is. That says that it isnt night and day right there? One of these days I am going to run the Max against my Tombstone with identical materials, in theory the Max should edge it out?

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                      • #56
                        Thanks! Makes sense.
                        Originally posted by enlpck View Post
                        This does not (in general) make in phase legs. The lines are 180 out of phase, relative to the center tap (grounded conductor, in general, in the US).

                        By far the most common method is to have a center tap on the secondary of the transformer that provides 240/120. From the center tap, you see 120V to either end, so, relative to the center tap (which is usually the grounded conductor), you see the two ends 180deg out of phase (when one end is positive relative to the center, the other end is negative)


                        Several other ways, as well, most of which involve a transformer. For example, if you have a pair coming in with 240 (such as, for example, in the UK, or in the back corner of an industrial plant where all you have is 240 three phase), a transformer with a single winding and a center tap will give two 120's 180 deg out of phase, relative to the tap. This is an autotransformer configuration, and care must be taken with regard to grounding to avoid a fault.

                        A non-transformer method, suitable for low current situation, especially with balanced loads, uses capacitors (one form of 'phase splitter' configuration common in communications), and others use other electronic solutions to generate a center.
                        Weekend wannab racer with some welders.

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                        • #57
                          Oh well. All machines are not equal. Nor do they produce the same arc characteristics. There are no two welders that were ever made that weld the same. AC/DC/ 1 ph / 3 ph, Engine driven, they all weld different. And there is a difference in DC. Not all DC from all machines is the same. Matter of electronics. DC made from AC is different in each machine, even if same make model two pulled off the line. Some welders are smoother than others. Gee guys I been at this only 12 years and I can see arc characteristic differences from machine to machine with the same rods. Oh wait, lets toss in a few wire feeders to boot. Get back to welding guys. Boss ain't paying us to breath! Use what you weld with best.

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                          • #58
                            It isn't that I don't think there is a difference between machines, its that I don't think most people are good enough at it to make much of a difference. Most people think they can tell the difference between beer brands, blind taste tests say otherwise.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sberry View Post
                              It isn't that I don't think there is a difference between machines, its that I don't think most people are good enough at it to make much of a difference.
                              it all boils down to learning how to weld with any machine, this superiority complex some weldors have about certain machines/phases/cunsumables is ridiculous, if they had talent they'd be able to weld with any machine and not cumplain "oooh, it's a bad joint 'cause i weren't using my machine with my favorite filler."

                              BILGEWATER!!!! gimme a 9v battery, a coat hanger and some lamp cord. i'll fncking weld it.

                              Originally posted by Steve View Post
                              Use what you weld with best.
                              yeah, use that crutch instead of developing a skill.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by PUMPKINHEAD View Post
                                gimme a 9v battery, a coat hanger and some lamp cord. i'll fncking weld it.
                                I'm waiting for the video of you doing this - complete with bend tests.
                                Syncrowave 250DX
                                Invison 354MP
                                XR Control and 30A

                                Airco MED20 feeder
                                Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                                Smith O/A rig
                                And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

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