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Converting 460v Thunderbolt to 230

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  • MAC702
    replied
    You're paying for POWER, not amps, and besides, you aren't transforming it to the lower amperage until after you've paid for it.

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  • jallcorn
    replied
    amp draw

    I understand the wire sizing issue. How about the amp DRAW part? Say you are on a demand meter, at higher voltages is the amp draw less from the power company? I'm curious and realize there is a lot about electricity I don't know, esp. on the supply side.

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  • MAC702
    replied
    Originally posted by jallcorn View Post
    ...Plus, the amp draw at 460 is 1/2 that of 230. ...
    True, but this is only going to affect the size of the wire from the transformer to the machine, which will usually be negligible at the distances in a small shop.

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  • jallcorn
    replied
    230 or 460?

    My shop only has 230 single and 3 phase. One of these days I will buy a step up transformer for 460. That makes LOTS of good used equipment usable and most of it is cheap cause most folks don't have that type of power. Plus, the amp draw at 460 is 1/2 that of 230.

    A transformer is likely not practical for just 1 machine, but you can use them for multiple machines. Sort of like a phase converter to make 3 phase out of single phase can be used for more than one machine.
    Last edited by jallcorn; 09-21-2008, 09:39 AM. Reason: add info

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  • duaneb55
    replied
    Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w..._384175_384175

    Best bang for the buck- new, warranty and no worrying about iffin' it will work

    Free shipping.
    Yup. Looks like a good deal to me too.

    Leave a comment:


  • duaneb55
    replied
    Originally posted by Aeroweld View Post
    Not worth it to me. When I discovered mine was a 460v model I looked at the parts manual considered the parts needed to convert it. I figured a conversion would be in the $250-300 range....at least. So then I would have used, AC output only, Thunderbolt with $300-350 invested in a machine I could buy new (at the time) for about $275.00. Hmmm....do the math. I might have been born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.
    OK - clarification time.

    I never intended to imply it would be wise to spend $3-400 on a new transformer to 'save' a $200 machine. However, I am the kind of person that prefers to explore the options and if I had a $50 welder and I was lucky enough to find a NOS transformer coil for another $50 or so that was the only thing needed to address my desire/need, I wouldn't back down from the challenge or hesitate to spend a few hours to wind up with what I wanted. If it were a money making production based issue then by all means walk away and go get something that makes more sense.

    If it's bolted together you can take it apart and fix it. If its welded you can cut it apart and modify it. It all boils down to whether or not it's worth it to the individual IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeroweld
    replied
    Originally posted by cruizer View Post
    Again being a Miller Tech and all, and having acess to the super secret Miller Tech only site, those parts are NOT available. And looking at the new version 230 transformer unit, you'd be looking at the $450 mark anyways.

    So considering a used 230 T-bolt AC/DC running is around $200, even if you could buy the other transformer, which you can't, spending the extra $300 to net yourself a $200 machine isn't worth it., or is it.
    Not worth it to me. When I discovered mine was a 460v model I looked at the parts manual considered the parts needed to convert it. I figured a conversion would be in the $250-300 range....at least. So then I would have used, AC output only, Thunderbolt with $300-350 invested in a machine I could buy new (at the time) for about $275.00. Hmmm....do the math. I might have been born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.
    Last edited by Aeroweld; 09-06-2008, 11:41 AM.

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  • cruizer
    replied
    Again being a Miller Tech and all, and having acess to the super secret Miller Tech only site, those parts are NOT available. And looking at the new version 230 transformer unit, you'd be looking at the $450 mark anyways.

    So considering a used 230 T-bolt AC/DC running is around $200, even if you could buy the other transformer, which you can't, spending the extra $300 to net yourself a $200 machine isn't worth it., or is it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeroweld
    replied
    Originally posted by duaneb55 View Post
    Look again Aeroweld. I think you'll find it's 460v '1' phase. To convert to 230v 1 phase all you need is the primary coil for the T1 transformer. The challenge is finding one (PN 112498)... now two.
    Hi Duane, Yes, you are correct it is a 1 phase machine. Typo on my part. Thanks for the part number. I have to order some Miller parts next week and just might see if that coil is avalable and the cost.
    It is low priority. I only bought the machine as it could be used to power my HF251 Hi-Freq box for remote location TIG welding of aluminum. At the time I was getting some work on pin setting machines for bowling alleys. Sometimes the machines were located too far away from doorways to get at with the cables I had for my engine drive. I had borrowed a friends Thunderbolt a couple of times to do the jobs. When this one came on the auction block I figured $50 was a good price even if the machine would rarely be used.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broccoli1
    replied
    Originally posted by hank View Post

    I have a Miller Sidekick, a great welder, but need something bigger every now and then and a AC/DC stick welder would be an economical answer. Oddly though, there doesn't seem to be much of a market for Thunderbolts around here. I don't know why that is. Guess everyone's into mig's which go for big bucks.

    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w..._384175_384175

    Best bang for the buck- new, warranty and no worrying about iffin' it will work

    Free shipping.

    Leave a comment:


  • duaneb55
    replied
    Originally posted by Aeroweld View Post
    I've got a Thunderbolt 460v 3phase available for $50.00 plus shipping if you really have to have one. I bought this thing at an auction and never thought to look at the input voltage. Silly me! Who would have thunk that a small welder like that was 460v. Looking at the parts list it looks like most of the high dollar parts would have to be changed. So what is the sense of throwing good money after bad? This thing's been a static display in the corner of the shop for about 15 years. I could probably get rid of it for scrap and get my money out of it considering metal prices these days
    Look again Aeroweld. I think you'll find it's 460v '1' phase. To convert to 230v 1 phase all you need is the primary coil for the T1 transformer. The challenge is finding one (PN 112498)... now two.

    Leave a comment:


  • hank
    replied
    Thanks, but I don't really have to have one I guess. It just seems a shame that what are probably pretty good welding machines will be relegated to the trash pile because of their specialized voltage requirements.

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  • Aeroweld
    replied
    Originally posted by hank View Post
    I did get it. The serial number is KC270013, model no: 902784. The guy wants $200.00 for it so the parts would have to reasonable. He'd probably take less by now.
    I've got a Thunderbolt 460v 3phase available for $50.00 plus shipping if you really have to have one. I bought this thing at an auction and never thought to look at the input voltage. Silly me! Who would have thunk that a small welder like that was 460v. Looking at the parts list it looks like most of the high dollar parts would have to be changed. So what is the sense of throwing good money after bad? This thing's been a static display in the corner of the shop for about 15 years. I could probably get rid of it for scrap and get my money out of it considering metal prices these days

    Leave a comment:


  • duaneb55
    replied
    Originally posted by cruizer View Post
    Been even better if those part#'s in question still exsisted in the Miller price list but they don't.

    This T-bolt was last tested at the Miller factory 7/17/1992. Miller generally doesn't stock alot of parts for machines 16 years old and counting.....
    cuizer,
    I agree it would be nice to see the required PN in the price book for sure but finding new suction and discharge valves for a 1944 Quincy 2-cylinder air compressor a few years back, new in factory box water pump for a 1950's Kohler 6.5 generator and most recently new in factory box dual tank kit (thanks to an attentive forum member) for my '80s vintage MM200 tells me there's always a chance of finding what you want or need for those willing to take a look see IMO.
    Duane

    Leave a comment:


  • cruizer
    replied
    Been even better if those part#'s in question still exsisted in the Miller price list but they don't.

    This T-bolt was last tested at the Miller factory 7/17/1992. Miller generally doesn't stock alot of parts for machines 16 years old and counting.....

    Leave a comment:

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