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  • Bad acetylene bottle

    I just exchanged my bottle and the one they gave me ( the only one they could find on the doc) was really sad looking. It had a green repair tag on it but the people said that was just so they knew who's it was. It seamed shaky.
    Now that I got it home, when I open it, it seems that I have to turn the valve a lot before it turns on, about 3/4 of a turn or a little more. I have never had one turn that far before cracking on. I checked in my old manual out of curiosity and they say never turn the valve more than one turn, I'm almost there just to crack it open.

    Has any one else ever seen one turn this far? I was wondering if I should take it back or if I'm being too picky. ( its a long trip to return it) What do youall think?
    To all who contribute to this board.
    My sincere thanks , Pete.

    Pureox OA
    Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
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  • #2
    Sounds like they pawned a bad one of on you I would take it back and any paper work you have and get a different one. If you have to open the valve that much I would be concerned about continued failure and the possibility of gas release while you were using it.
    If it is a national chain or a local one with more than one local if you don't get satisfaction. I would go to head or main office. It sounds very unsafe!
    glen, If your not on the edge, your wasting space

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    • #3
      Thanks for the reassurance, I think I'll give them a call right now.
      To all who contribute to this board.
      My sincere thanks , Pete.

      Pureox OA
      Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
      Miller Syncrowave 250
      Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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      • #4
        Originally posted by burninbriar View Post
        Thanks for the reassurance, I think I'll give them a call right now.
        I'd take it back before they say you tried to pawn a pos bottle on them.
        Nick
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        • #5
          Well, I got it traded for a better POS, but not without incident. The guy was arguing that he knows no reason why you would not wind the valve all the way open anyway. I kindly told him it is a matter of safety and every manual you read will tell you never to open acetylene valve more than one turn. He replied with (Yea! I don't know why they say that.) I was thinking to myself "since its your business, maybe you should find out."

          The way I ended up there is I needed a refill on a Saturday and my regular supplier was closed. I went to this guy and all he had was Linde bottles that use a t handle wrench and my regular supplier doesn't mess with them. This other guy said I could exchange back, but I really expected to get a bottle that works in exchange.

          I will be able to get back with my old supplier now anyway. I might have to pay for a valve job but its worth it.

          To top off the day, my truck spun a bearing or something. Its making a horrible racket and its starting to loose oil pressure pretty bad. Oh well.
          To all who contribute to this board.
          My sincere thanks , Pete.

          Pureox OA
          Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
          Miller Syncrowave 250
          Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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          • #6
            Normally, I an somewhat critical of some of the LWS's but mainly it's only about prices. I have to give my local Airgas credit for the way they react when you feel that there is an issue with a bottle.

            About a year ago, I exchanged an acetylene cylinder. I beiieve it's one of the 80 cu ft. sizes. I took it home and used it three or four times over a two week period. The next time I used it, it was almost empty. It apparently had a leak. I always just crack the valves to use them and I'm very careful to shut them off when I'm through. I'm sure that I didn't leave it open. I took it back in and they exchanged it with a smile and gave me a nice clean full one. That's the way it ought to be.

            They've gotten to know me so that now they won't bring one out for exchange unless it's clean and fairly good-looking. It sort of makes up for the high prices. LOL The LWS's have a duty to be reasonable about these things, especially when there is a saferty issue.

            You are quite correct about only cracking the valve on the acetylene cylinder. The fellow obviously didn't now his product line. Some training is in order.
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            • #7
              Seems I learned in school back in the '60s that the bottle was NEVER to be used laying down, too. Ken
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              • #8
                I have one now that needs to be nearly a turn before its open, no big deal.

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                • #9
                  All the guy has to do is look at the valve design (and that's in the manual too)
                  and he will then KNOW why 1: the valve doesn't need to be opened more then one full turn. 2: Why the valve should never be opened more then one and a half turns. the valve on an acetylene bottle is not a back seating design like on the O2 bottle which is why an O2 bottle will leak if NOT opened all the way.

                  I won't go on a rant but Acetylene is probably the most unstable gas in use by consumers and is most likely the most unstable gas around. Bottom line is It's not to be played with and it requires a healthy amount of respect. and if this LWS has no idea why you don't crank the valve all the way open?? well he's living on borrowed time and his stupidity will be painful on day
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                  • #10
                    The outside appearance of a bottle is totally meaningless.
                    And different valves have different characteristics.
                    A valve that opens after more rotation is perfectly normal, I've had several hundred that way. A valve that opens with initial rotation is just as normal and I've had hundreds of those as well.
                    This is the kind of thing that makes welding supply stores hate to do business with homeowners, and why they charge you guys so much.

                    JTMcC.
                    Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by burninbriar View Post
                      I just exchanged my bottle and the one they gave me ( the only one they could find on the doc) was really sad looking. It had a green repair tag on it but the people said that was just so they knew who's it was. It seamed shaky.
                      Now that I got it home, when I open it, it seems that I have to turn the valve a lot before it turns on, about 3/4 of a turn or a little more. I have never had one turn that far before cracking on. I checked in my old manual out of curiosity and they say never turn the valve more than one turn, I'm almost there just to crack it open.

                      Has any one else ever seen one turn this far? I was wondering if I should take it back or if I'm being too picky. ( its a long trip to return it) What do youall think?

                      I believe you pretty much over reacted on this. It would be more like...1 turn-ish from where it cracks open. The amount of turning after seated varies from bottle to bottle. Some of the thinking is it is a lot quicker to close a bottle only one turn in the case of a safety issue. Exactly one turn isn't life and death.(IMO...YMMV)
                      I do agree that the LWS guy could use some schooling tho.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JTMcC View Post
                        The outside appearance of a bottle is totally meaningless.
                        And different valves have different characteristics.
                        A valve that opens after more rotation is perfectly normal, I've had several hundred that way. A valve that opens with initial rotation is just as normal and I've had hundreds of those as well.
                        This is the kind of thing that makes welding supply stores hate to do business with homeowners, and why they charge you guys so much.

                        JTMcC.
                        This matter has been cleared up, but there is a difference between a bottle that is beat up from use and one that has the appearance of sitting outside on a dock for ten years without being moved. There is no doubt in my mind that he was unloading an unwanted bottle on me. He knew I normally deal with an other supplier and I would not be bringing that bottle back. I was open with him about how I ended up with his Linde bottle and why I wanted to exchange back to a valve top. My regular supplier does not want any of this guys Linde bottles because the have a high rate of inspection failure.
                        After this guy gave me a better bottle, he told me I had to bring it back to him because it was a customer owned bottle. What a load!!! If that was a concern, then what happened to my customer owned bottle, and if this customer for some reason wanted his original bottle back, they had a lot of nerve giving it to me. It is clear to me that he was unloading crap on me.
                        In their defense though, my regular supplier said the valve was probably safe, but is close to or in need of replacement to pass inspection. (he didn't see the bottle, he was going off my description of how it worked)
                        And for what its worth, the price of gas has nothing to do with who buys it, and the act of using anything without regard to safety is not a good practice. I've been buying bottled gas's since I was on the farm back in the 70s and I do know a thing or two about what to expect, even though I'm not a certified welder.
                        To all who contribute to this board.
                        My sincere thanks , Pete.

                        Pureox OA
                        Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                        Miller Syncrowave 250
                        Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by burninbriar View Post
                          This matter has been cleared up, but there is a difference between a bottle that is beat up from use and one that has the appearance of sitting outside on a dock for ten years without being moved.



                          In their defense though, my regular supplier said the valve was probably safe, but is close to or in need of replacement to pass inspection. (he didn't see the bottle, he was going off my description of how it worked)


                          And for what its worth, the price of gas has nothing to do with who buys it, and the act of using anything without regard to safety is not a good practice.

                          I can answer that, here goes:

                          1.) If you can determine what a bottle has been doing for the last 10 years, you should be making the big bucks working for Miss Cleo. But like I said, outward appearance of a bottle is totally immaterial. The companies that test, maintain and refill cylinders pay even higher liability rates than welders. When was the last time you heard of a gas cylinder failure that wasn't caused by a fire or a vehicle wreck? These people are very good at their job and do an awfull nice job of keeping sound, safe cylinders in circulation.
                          The oldest bottle I've ever noticed in my possession was a 1911 model oxygen. I almost kept it just for the historic value. Imagine what that old dude has seen, WWI, Great Depression, WWII, Post war boom, Jimmy Carter's recession, hundreds of boom/bust cycles in the oil/gas/pipeline world, space shuttle launches, man oh man the places a 1911 oxygen bottle has been. Amazing to me.

                          2.) There ya go, the valve is safe, the system is such that worrying about the safety of the gas cylinders I get from the welding supply ranks.......oh, say.....right below my worries about a comet smashing into my house and ruining my "Bob the builder Welder Guy".

                          3.) The price of gas has everything to do with who's buying it! This is a great failure of the public school system in this country, not imparting even a basic understanding of free market forces on the brains of our youth.
                          If you think low volumn users are getting the same price on gas, as the structural shop that uses a semitruck load of bottles every week you're understanding of the marketplace dynamics is lacking. Same thing for consumables, machines, abrasives, paper towels, ammo, bacon, you name it. When Kiewit buys F-150's by the trainload, they get quite a better deal than I'm ever going to see on one pickup.



                          JTMcC.
                          Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JTMcC View Post
                            I can answer that, here goes:

                            1.) If you can determine what a bottle has been doing for the last 10 years, you should be making the big bucks working for Miss Cleo. But like I said, outward appearance of a bottle is totally immaterial. The companies that test, maintain and refill cylinders pay even higher liability rates than welders. When was the last time you heard of a gas cylinder failure that wasn't caused by a fire or a vehicle wreck? These people are very good at their job and do an awfull nice job of keeping sound, safe cylinders in circulation.
                            The oldest bottle I've ever noticed in my possession was a 1911 model oxygen. I almost kept it just for the historic value. Imagine what that old dude has seen, WWI, Great Depression, WWII, Post war boom, Jimmy Carter's recession, hundreds of boom/bust cycles in the oil/gas/pipeline world, space shuttle launches, man oh man the places a 1911 oxygen bottle has been. Amazing to me.

                            2.) There ya go, the valve is safe, the system is such that worrying about the safety of the gas cylinders I get from the welding supply ranks.......oh, say.....right below my worries about a comet smashing into my house and ruining my "Bob the builder Welder Guy".

                            3.) The price of gas has everything to do with who's buying it! This is a great failure of the public school system in this country, not imparting even a basic understanding of free market forces on the brains of our youth.
                            If you think low volumn users are getting the same price on gas, as the structural shop that uses a semitruck load of bottles every week you're understanding of the marketplace dynamics is lacking. Same thing for consumables, machines, abrasives, paper towels, ammo, bacon, you name it. When Kiewit buys F-150's by the trainload, they get quite a better deal than I'm ever going to see on one pickup.



                            JTMcC.
                            Whats your problem? Maybe you should try getting a girlfriend or something.
                            If you think think your adding something that no one knows by telling us that bottles get beat up and exchange bottles are sometimes very old and rough, your revelation is old news. Every one knows that.
                            Yes, you can tell if a tank has been out on a dock for a long time. Heavy unbroken rust between the cap and bottle, different color concrete directly under the bottle from never having seen the sun are a few ways. If a bottle has been avoided for a long time, I question it. the same as I would question one laying on the river bank covered with moss. why? because it looks bad!!!
                            My regular supplier said the valve was probably in need of replacement. On customer owned bottle, I pay for that. So, I don't want the other guys POS. Its his bottle now, so he can pay for it himself.
                            On the price of bottled gas you again failed to drive home a point. In your first post you said the price is high because home users are a pain in the but. That has nothing to do with volume discounts. And again, if you think volume discounts are some big secret that you found out about, you are again misguided. This is also common knowledge.
                            If you think you can buy stuff and start using it without checking it out first because the people that sold it to you are looking out for you, you are naive. I hope you grow up before you get hurt.
                            Go find a girlfriend, or a bar so you can relax and quit trying to be a smartass.
                            Last edited by burninbriar; 08-25-2008, 01:47 AM.
                            To all who contribute to this board.
                            My sincere thanks , Pete.

                            Pureox OA
                            Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                            Miller Syncrowave 250
                            Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just admit it dude, you went off a whining on the internet and you were wrong on all counts.
                              That's the risk whiners take.

                              JTMcC.
                              Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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