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Dynasty 200DX arc starting?

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  • Newton Brawn
    replied
    Hi !

    It appears that the new machines do not have a HF arc starter unit with energy enough to open a clear 1/2 inch ionized path from the tungsten electrode to the work.
    To fix the low energy arc starter the recomendation is use doped tunghsten, (litle bit expense).
    Old machine used arc starter units that can open a clear 1/2" spark, with the welding main current source off.
    Of couse old HF units are heavy(3-6pounds) an take space in the welding machine.
    It is the progress price...

    Leave a comment:


  • Newton Brawn
    replied
    Hi !

    It appears that the new machines do not have a HF arc starter unit with energy enough to open a clear 1/2 inch ionized path from the tungsten electrode to the work.
    To fix the low energy arc starter the recomendation is use doped tunghsten, (litle bit expense).
    Old machine used arc starter units that can open a clear 1/2" spark, with the welding main current source off.
    Of couse old HF units are heavy(3-6pounds) an take space in the welding machine.
    It is the progress price...

    Leave a comment:


  • dseman
    replied
    Originally posted by kjlindgr View Post
    I did some playing around with the programming settings on the welder last night. I increased the HF start time a bit but didn't touch the start polarity or start amperage settings. It didn't seem to make much of a difference.

    My AC settings are:
    Positive polarity start
    150ms start time
    40A start intensity


    I did notice that when the tungsten is cold, it's much harder to start than when it's hot (i.e. red). When it's still hot, I can start an arc from even 1/2" away.


    Now, it makes me wonder if it might be tungsten related. I was using pure tungsten on some aluminum and I've read that pure tungsten isn't great at arc starting.

    Any other input?




    EDIT: I've historically only been using pure tungsten and 2% thoriated electrodes. I just bought some ceriated, 2% lanthanated, and zirconiated electrodes because I hear that they are better at arc starting. I'm excited to get those so I can see if they make a difference.


    Cold tungsten will always require higher start times and intensity than a hot tungsten due to the physics of tungsten. It emits electrons much more readily when it is hot. Now a 'doped' tungsten will always emit more electrons at lower surface temperatures than an 'undoped' or pure tungsten---thats why they dope pure tungsten with cerium or lanthanum to make the tungsten a better emitter.

    For the inverter type welders, pure tungsten just can't emit enough electrons when cold compared to a 'doped' tungsten like ceriated or lanthanated. You can make it work but you will have to increase the start time and start intensity. Eventually though, once you get into arc shaping with the frequency control you'll find pure tungsten a poor performer. Just use either lanthanated or ceriated and you should be fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjlindgr
    replied
    I did some playing around with the programming settings on the welder last night. I increased the HF start time a bit but didn't touch the start polarity or start amperage settings. It didn't seem to make much of a difference.

    My AC settings are:
    Positive polarity start
    150ms start time
    40A start intensity


    I did notice that when the tungsten is cold, it's much harder to start than when it's hot (i.e. red). When it's still hot, I can start an arc from even 1/2" away.

    Now, it makes me wonder if it might be tungsten related. I was using pure tungsten on some aluminum and I've read that pure tungsten isn't great at arc starting.

    Any other input?


    EDIT: I've historically only been using pure tungsten and 2% thoriated electrodes. I just bought some ceriated, 2% lanthanated, and zirconiated electrodes because I hear that they are better at arc starting. I'm excited to get those so I can see if they make a difference.
    Last edited by kjlindgr; 06-13-2008, 09:42 AM. Reason: I'm a ninja

    Leave a comment:


  • Laiky
    replied
    I have noticed that its also easier if you trigger the post flow, then try to start the arc.

    Leave a comment:


  • obewan
    replied
    Arc Starting

    We have had trouble with arc starting on some of our Millers. Changing the settings fixed the problem. My understanding is that inverters do not use High Freq. They use high voltage? Any way, we needed to change the time so that the tungsten was preheated for a couple of seconds before the arc initiated. If the end of the tungsten gets red hot, the electrons emit better. It was not an easy thing to program since the manual was not real clear on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • dseman
    replied
    Originally posted by kjlindgr View Post
    Hey all. I just picked up a Dynasty 200DX to replace my Syncrowave 180SD. My Syncrowave was always a fantastic machine but I wanted some of the fancy features that the new inverters had.

    Anyway, I noticed that when using the high frequency start (not the lift arc), I have to be REALLY close to the metal in order for an arc to start. I'm talking like 1/16" whereas my old Syncrowave, I could be 1/2" or more away and it'd still make an arc.

    Is this common or does my machine have an issue?
    If you crack open your owner's manual you will find that you have 3 adjustments: Ep starting vs. En starting, intensity of starting pulse, and duration of time the starting pulse operates. The default is just that---a default for 3/32 doped tungsten under most conditions. If you have goobers on the tungsten, or it's heavily used, or a different diameter or composition than lanthanated or ceriated you'll have to make adjustments. It's not a problem with the machine if you can make some adjustments and have it fire up again without a problem.

    Syncro's have a true HF spark starter (as opposed to a CD type (me thinks)) inside the maxstars and dynastys. The HF were set up pretty high to work under most conditions, but could blow holes when operating at lower amperage work.

    Personally, I don't see the adjustments as being a problem but rather a nice feature that allows me to tailor my arc starts the way I like---either set low to increase the time before regrinding is needed, or cranked up high for science experiments.

    -dseman
    Last edited by dseman; 06-05-2008, 04:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjlindgr
    replied
    It doesn't bother me much, I just am glad to know that it's not a machine issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Craig in Denver
    replied
    I read someone 'going off' on the weak Dynasty HF start circuitry. He was really animated and one of the pro's on this site. It was a couple of months ago and I don't remember for sure who it was. Maybe he'll see this thread and comment again.

    Leave a comment:


  • TS-Off-Road
    replied
    My 200DX is the same.

    I think there is a way to adjust it. I don't know how though.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjlindgr
    started a topic Dynasty 200DX arc starting?

    Dynasty 200DX arc starting?

    Hey all. I just picked up a Dynasty 200DX to replace my Syncrowave 180SD. My Syncrowave was always a fantastic machine but I wanted some of the fancy features that the new inverters had.

    Anyway, I noticed that when using the high frequency start (not the lift arc), I have to be REALLY close to the metal in order for an arc to start. I'm talking like 1/16" whereas my old Syncrowave, I could be 1/2" or more away and it'd still make an arc.

    Is this common or does my machine have an issue?
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