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  • millermatic 250x questions

    hello to all, i have a m.m. 250x and am having trouble with what you refer to as burn in? i just installed a new liner for the 023 wire along with a new spool of wire . everything checks out ok but as soon as i strike an arc the wire seems to burn back to the tip too quickly. can anyone point me in the right direction on how to adjust this? thank you.. steve .

  • #2
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Early in 2002 I bought a Miller 250X with Meters and 2 guns and cables. The Guns and cables were set up for .023 and .035 wire for quick change. Right from the first Arc, the .035 wire ran beautiful. The .023 wire had continous
    Burn Backs. The 250X was totally non productive with .023 wire due to the Burn Backs.

    I called Miller Tech Support at 920-735-4505 and spoke with Kevin Schuh
    (spelling of Kevins name may be wrong). I explained the problem and here is what Kevin shared with me. The following is not a quote, but as close as I could copy what he was saying.

    (Kevin);
    The Miller 250X is designed for a HOT START. This means that no matter what Voltage you have set the welder to, on initial start of the Arc, the voltage jumps to 24 Volts. Once the Arc is established the voltage then goes to what ever you have it set at. This has caused some problems with .023 wire, but works great with larger wire. To Stop the HOT START, CLIP DIODE D1 on the upper right on the board. However, I recomend that you just cut one end of the diode free and then put a SPST switch on the front panel in series with the cut lead of the diode and the solder pad on the board where it was soldered. This way you can have a choice of HOT START or Non Hot Start.

    Further from Kevin;
    Pot R8 on the Board is the Feed Motor Torque. Its a BLUE POT. Turn this control CCW until you hear it ratchet inside, which is as far as it will go, then turn it CW 2 turns.

    This should solve your problems
    Kevin Off;

    I did what Kevin suggested and immediatelly the .023 Burn Back was solved.
    I mounted the SPST switch on the front panel immediatelly to the lower right of the Voltage Select Knob. Since this mod in 2002, I have never had a burn back problem with .023 wire. I still suggest you contact Milelr Tech Support and ask about your problem. Then you can also address the above Mod suggested by Kevin.

    Good Luck
    Paul (please dont kill the messenger ha ha
    Found this info on the 250X, using the search function. Everything I 've read on the MM 250X makes it sound like a Lemon, just like the MM 250 is that it replaced. There definite reason s why Miller has built the better performing 251 and 252.

    Comment


    • #3
      Maybe it was like the Vega and Corvair....by the time they got them fixed and trouble free the reputation was too much to get them sold.


      It would be cool if that was all the tweeking one needed to turn these into good reliable machines. Not saying I know anything just sorta thinking Miller would have never quit without a fight.

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      • #4
        been there, done that

        I still have my 250X and have been through all of the burnback issues.
        I lived with them for years (thinking it was just me), and finally disabled the HotStart through the help of this forum and Miller. Since then, the burnback problems have been eliminated (or at least dramatically reduced).

        I made my living using this 250X and have pushed a lot of wire (both stainless and steel) through it. I even did a large job of 16 ga. stainless with it. Although it is finicky with its adjustments, it does have a sweet spot from about 3/16" to 3/8". It has been a very reliable machine. Aside from the burnback issues, I have had absolutely no problems with it. I do mostly sculptural and decorative work. Nonetheless, I still want my welds to be nicer than the next guy's.

        That being said, I recently puchased a Passport... which kicks @ss! I am now saving for a 350P. Although I do very little Aluminum work, I tested a 350P push/pull system at a Miller Road Show and was very impressed.

        So... disable the HotStart and I think you will be OK.

        Good luck.
        Maxstar 200DX
        Maxstar 300DX
        Dynasty 200DX
        Passport
        Spectrum 701
        LMSW-52 spot welder

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
          Maybe it was like the Vega and Corvair....by the time they got them fixed and trouble free the reputation was too much to get them sold.


          It would be cool if that was all the tweeking one needed to turn these into good reliable machines. Not saying I know anything just sorta thinking Miller would have never quit without a fight.

          In addition to this hot start issue, when discussing this unit with a few others who have owned them, it seems like the units second downfall, was a poor inductance level, which produced a sluggish weld puddle, and possibly a somewhat harsh arc. With the introduction of the 251, and now the 252, Miller did a good job of eliminating both the poor arc starting condition , and poor weld puddle wet out / harsh arc issues. Based on my experience with MM 251 that I use to own, the combination of an adjustable run-in, with the active arc stabilizer seems to have eliminated any issue of poor arc starts. Plus, the new choke design has really softened up the arc quite a bit ( its a little to soft for me though, but it's still pretty nice), resulting in a soft smooth arc, that producing a weld puddle that wets out very well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dan View Post
            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



            Found this info on the 250X, using the search function. Everything I 've read on the MM 250X makes it sound like a Lemon, just like the MM 250 is that it replaced. There definite reason s why Miller has built the better performing 251 and 252.
            (As an update) I was the one that originally posted about the 250x Mods. Now a few years later, and many rolls of wire, performance is great. I have no problems or complaints. Just need 6 good numbers for Lotto LOL.

            Paul

            Comment


            • #7
              paul does your machine have meters? or not. mine does not. serial # starts with KK. I sent a message to andy but he has not responded yet. i just want to make sure i clip the right part on the board. thank you

              Comment


              • #8
                Steven;

                My 205X does have the digital readout for voltage and wire feed speed.

                Good Luck, I hope you too will find it like a new machine.

                Paul

                Comment


                • #9
                  clipped it and....

                  it is woking great! the 023 wire welds smooth and no burn back ... i did not mess with the resistor for run in. im a happy camper now. thank you for the help steve p.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Over the years I have been in plants where they asked my to use their equipment instead of mine.

                    The 250 amp millers that were made back around 1991 - 1995 were junk, I dont remember the exact year but they were from around that time.

                    I had 2 miller matics one was a 35 from approx. 1983 and the next one was bought brand new in 1987 called a MM200 These two were very smooth running great machines the only draw back was the melting jacks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by steven p.
                      it is woking great! the 023 wire welds smooth and no burn back ... i did not mess with the resistor for run in. im a happy camper now. thank you for the help steve p.
                      Steve, GREAT news. Glad your happy. I like mt 250X now. NO sense messing with the run in resistor if all is working. I did put a toggle switch on the front panel so I could select hot start or not. Switch is hokked to the terminal on the board where the diode was cut. The other wire from the switch goes to the cut end of the diode.

                      Paul

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Question.

                        I have a 250x and it works great, that I can tell. . I run ESAB 7100 ultra .045 fluxcore dualshield . . . now I don't burn small wire. . I have only run this wire

                        the other day I was welding some small tubing 1/2" in the overhead position under a trailer so I can put the trailer light wires threw . I cleaned all metal & did the proper prep before welding. machine set at 19.1 volts and 174 WFS . had some trouble getting the weld to start. poping & sputtering at first but a few seconds into the weld and it kinda cleared up but not all the way, still kinda spattery. . now everything I could check on the machine was ok
                        I wonder do you think this could be some symptoms of the hot start ? or just me . Humm ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Richard
                          Question.

                          I have a 250x and it works great, that I can tell. . I run ESAB 7100 ultra .045 fluxcore dualshield . . . now I don't burn small wire. . I have only run this wire

                          the other day I was welding some small tubing 1/2" in the overhead position under a trailer so I can put the trailer light wires threw . I cleaned all metal & did the proper prep before welding. machine set at 19.1 volts and 174 WFS . had some trouble getting the weld to start. poping & sputtering at first but a few seconds into the weld and it kinda cleared up but not all the way, still kinda spattery. . now everything I could check on the machine was ok
                          I wonder do you think this could be some symptoms of the hot start ? or just me . Humm ?
                          From my experience and also what the Miller Tech told me the hot start problem only effected .023 wire. I cant see how it woud relate to the problem you mention.

                          Paul

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A few words of caution,

                            Before going in and clipping anything on a control board or making modifications please give us a call with the serial number of your machine. There are 3 different control boards out there for the Millermatic 250X and the information in the quote attributed to me is not 100% correct. I would hate to have someone clip the wrong part and ruin a control board.

                            Kevin
                            Kevin Schuh
                            Service Technician
                            Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Paul,

                              The issue you experienced is not likely caused by the hot start. I would look for anything that may have caused a feed issue, worn drive rolls, plugged or kinked liner, worn contact tip, spool brake tension, wire tangle on the spool, etc. Having the gun bent off short to reach into a tight spot could do it also.

                              Kevin
                              Kevin Schuh
                              Service Technician
                              Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

                              Comment

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