Recommend a new machine for me!

[JET]

I have done a bunch of research on here, but I haven't found what I am looking for. I have an aftermarket automotive business, mostly 16 gauge 304SS exhaust and intercooler tubing. I also do a fair amount of aluminum production work, mostly 1/8", but some 1/8" welded to 1/2". The size of the machine won't be an issue, but it will get used quite a bit.

I have a HH140 and Syncrowave 250 right now, but I need a better MIG. How good is the weld strength on the spool guns with aluminum? I was looking at a MM180 with autoset, but if the spool guns work well, I may jump to a MM252. I am open to any kind of machine, if a spool gun will make high strength AL6061 welds, then it would save me a lot of time over TIG'ing the AL welds. The main thing this machine would be doing is 16 gauge SS and minimal splatter is a must. Would a multiprocess machine be of any use to me? I can weld pretty decent, but I am totally behind on the latest technology.

Portability means nothing as this is strictly a shop based machine. Budget isn't a huge concern, I want the right machine for the job, but as always, the cheaper the better. Thanks for the help guys!

[Paul Seaman]

I would start for the saying production work is harder with a spoolgun than a push pull setup and my choice would be the mm350p. The spoolgun will be more efficicnt than tig but will have more difficulties in regards to quality. I have done quite a bit and it never looked as good as my tig currently does.

The mm252 is a solid machine, add the spoolgun and its nice for sure. Although the 180 will do some of this work it won't run production work like your describing especially on Al.

As for multi-process machines, they are great and I love mine. Just the price tag is much higher, and I would say the mm350p would stand you in better stead than a multiprocess.

[JET]

Thanks Paul, I have been checking out the 350p and it seems to be exactly what I would want for doing aluminum with the Python gun. That is quite a bit of coin for that setup though Are there any push-pull guns with a smaller tip than the python?

[shadetreewelder]

I would start for the saying production work is harder with a spoolgun than a push pull setup and my choice would be the mm350p. The spoolgun will be more efficicnt than tig but will have more difficulties in regards to quality. I have done quite a bit and it never looked as good as my tig currently does.

The mm252 is a solid machine, add the spoolgun and its nice for sure. Although the 180 will do some of this work it won't run production work like your describing especially on Al.

As for multi-process machines, they are great and I love mine. Just the price tag is much higher, and I would say the mm350p would stand you in better stead than a multiprocess.

The strength of a good MIG weld and a good TIG weld would be the same. One is not "better" than to other. The TIG will cosmetically look nicer.

I would also point you toward the 350P and a push pull gun, I run a 30A spoolgun on my 350P I run 90% of all of my welding on pulse, it is faster and leave as nice of a weld behind as any other MIG process.

[shadetreewelder]

Thanks Paul, I have been checking out the 350p and it seems to be exactly what I would want for doing aluminum with the Python gun. That is quite a bit of coin for that setup though Are there any push-pull guns with a smaller tip than the python?

Contact tips and nozzles come in various sizes just purchase what fits you geometry the best.

[Paul Seaman]

Ron:
That is not what I said what said it will be more difficult to achieve constant quality since the puddle gets more fluid as you input more and more heat.

He is reffering to the size of the nozzle and I am not certain which has the smallest in this catagory. The python is smaller than any spoolgun though.

[shadetreewelder]

Ron:
That is not what I said what said it will be more difficult to achieve constant quality since the puddle gets more fluid as you input more and more heat.

My comment was not directed at your post but rather at Jet's question.

I have a HH140 and Syncrowave 250 right now, but I need a better MIG. How good is the weld strength on the spool guns with aluminum? ... if a spool gun will make high strength AL6061 welds, then it would save me a lot of time over TIG'ing the AL welds.

The main thing this machine would be doing is 16 gauge SS and minimal splatter is a must. Would a multiprocess machine be of any use to me?

I don't think a multiprocess (MP) machine is what you are looking for. You say this is production work. Get a dedicated MIG and a dedicated TIG. You will save a good deal of time switching a MP machine back and forth and if you get busy enough you can have 2 people welding if you have separate TIG and MIG machines.

You will have some work in setting up 16 gauge stainless but pulse welding it with a good tri-mix gas and a good wire you should get spatter free welds.

(PS. Paint splatters, metal spatters)

[cruizer]

Most production shops have switched from tig to pulsed mig on Aluminum, production times have increased exponentially.

Fast.cost effective, and the welds (with the proper machine) are the same or better than Tig. Tig still has it's place for really complex welds, or where the procedure calls for it.

We see many more Plasma welders, somethimg like tig but no hf, in the market now for the more complex materials and setups like the Ultima 150's

[JET]

Thanks guys, I do have a TIG already, so I think I am looking at the 350p with a python. If things take off enough I will probably get a 252 for just stainless so I don't have to switch the 350p from aluminum to stainless all the time. I will just try to batch the aluminum jobs. I was hoping there was another machine that would do a nice job for less money, but it sounds like this is the way to go.

[shadetreewelder]

Thanks guys, I do have a TIG already, so I think I am looking at the 350p with a python. If things take off enough I will probably get a 252 for just stainless so I don't have to switch the 350p from aluminum to stainless all the time. I will just try to batch the aluminum jobs. I was hoping there was another machine that would do a nice job for less money, but it sounds like this is the way to go.

How about an Invision with a D-74DX dual feeder.

List
MM 252 $2428
MM 350P $4319

INV 350 $4940
D74S $3455

Its an option also with the 70 series feeders you can run 60# spools and save a little more money.

[Paul Seaman]

The invision is a fine machine and the 70 series feeder is great, but for a budget shop it just too hard to swallow and you have to lay it all out at the front end as opposed to being able to get running and then add another machone. Also the benefit of having 2 machines is if you get a large amount of one kind of work you can set them both to that material and bang it out with 2 welders.

I Learned mig on an invision 354mp, and loved it, prior to the mm350p It was my favorite Miller machine. Budgets don't allow me to own just anything I want. What I have is solid and works, not too may bells and not to many extras. I can justify what I own, but much more and I could not!

Shade Tree Welder, good suggestion that is usually forgotten Thanks for jarring my memory.

Peace,

[shadetreewelder]

The invision is a fine machine and the 70 series feeder is great, but for a budget shop it just too hard to swallow and you have to lay it all out at the front end as opposed to being able to get running and then add another machone. Also the benefit of having 2 machines is if you get a large amount of one kind of work you can set them both to that material and bang it out with 2 welders.

I Learned mig on an invision 354mp, and loved it, prior to the mm350p It was my favorite Miller machine. Budgets don't allow me to own just anything I want. What I have is solid and works, not too may bells and not to many extras. I can justify what I own, but much more and I could not!

Shade Tree Welder, good suggestion that is usually forgotten Thanks for jarring my memory.

Peace,

I have never owned an Invision but have had some time on one with a 70 series feeder, definitely a cadillac pair. Yes they are more $$$. One thing you lose with MM 350P & MM 252 is no pulsing on the stainless. 2 MM 350P's would be better, I almost did that recently but one of my customers brought their work in-house with a robot.

Now with a 252/350P or 2x 350P you can have two people welding at one time with the INV 350 and a feeder whether it is a D-74 or a S-74 you can only have one person at a time welding. So JET has to figure out which option is better for him. For me it would be a second machine so I can have 2 of us welding at the same time. There are times now I will put one man on my 350P and I will run my 12RC feeder off the TB302.

It comes down to what fits his needs better.



I was talking to one of the Engineers at Miller Light Industrial (Millermatic's) earlier this year and he asked me what I liked and disliked about the MM 350P. One of my suggestions was to make a dual feeder version of it. That way a job shop like mine would be able to have 2 different wire set up to run and minimize switch over time, but you would have to also keep a spoolgun hook up for it. I would have one side FC/Dual sheild or Solid Stainless (I get runs of each) one side 70S-6 (90% of my welding) and I would have my 30A hooked up for the little aluminum I do. That would also make room for a side by side dual cylinder rack. Dunno if that every made it in to a design meeting but I gave them the idea....

[shadetreewelder]

How about an Invision with a D-74DX dual feeder.

List
MM 252 $2428
MM 350P $4319

INV 350 $4940
D74S $3455

Its an option also with the 70 series feeders you can run 60# spools and save a little more money.

Now keep in mind that is list around here they sell for 20% off and if you can nogotiate I have gotten them down to 24.5% off list. Any lower than that and they start having cardiac trouble...

[JET]

Thanks for the extra options guys. I am a single person shop and I only do this part time, so the 350p is even going to be pushing the budget. It looks like the way to go though, since I don't want to TIG each intake manifold since there are about 9' of welds on each one. The manifolds get put under a lot of pressure, so I just need them to be strong, which it sounds like is not going to be a problem.