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  • Tungsten degradation on Al, pic with in

    Dynasty 200 DX, 1 or 2% Lanthanated, forget what percent, but its what Ive been using since I bought the machine. Balance at ~ 65, freq at ~ 100, Amps at ~ 175 4043 rod, 2024 parent material.

    It still welds great, but its annoying. Whats the cause?

    Thanks

    Louis
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  • #2
    You either dipped it or touched your rod to it....then you continued to weld. I find myself in positions where I may have to press on even tho I know I've done the same thing and that is EXACTLY how it looks when you do that. HTH

    You just have to remember to look at the tungsten as well as the material and rod. keep it up...you'll get there

    HMMM... I was thinking for some reason 2024 was one you don't weld tho...maybe not? have to look and see.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
      You either dipped it or touched your rod to it....then you continued to weld. I find myself in positions where I may have to press on even tho I know I've done the same thing and that is EXACTLY how it looks when you do that. HTH

      You just have to remember to look at the tungsten as well as the material and rod. keep it up...you'll get there

      HMMM... I was thinking for some reason 2024 was one you don't weld tho...maybe not? have to look and see.
      2024 can be welded, but its not structural due to loss of heat treat if its not in the "0" condition. Heat treating wont bring back the strength of the weld itself either, especially 4043.

      As an aside 4145 is the preferred filler for 2024 due to its copper content...but last time I bought it, it cost me $26 per pound with a 25 pound order. 4043 mixed with 2024 tends to create a weld with low ductility.

      -Aaron
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      • #4
        Tungsten deradation

        What is the diameter of the electrode? For 175 amps you are running right at the top end of the 3/32" diameter and the bottom end of the 1/8". That splitting which is your primary issue is indicative of excessive amperage more commonly on the thoriated. If you did dip the electrode which I would tend to believe happened it would contaminate the electrode and possibly reduce its operating range. The balling effect on each tip is the tungsten trying to recover from the split.

        There are potentially several other issues that could result in this effect but from my experience the amps to diameter is the most common.

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        • #5
          Along with what others have said: dipped tungsten and too much heat for diameter tungsten, I would add that your balance (coupled with the high amps) is probably hurting you too. Are you brushing your al before you weld it? If so, you might try bumping your balance up to 75 or 80%. This will put more heat into the work and less into the tungsten.

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          • #6
            The tip wasn't contaminated. I fabricate for a living, and I dip it MAYBE once a day. I re grind if I do, I HATE bad welds. I can go days on steel with out ever sharpening the tungsten.

            This occurs after a few passes. The amperage is 175 max, but were welding .060 material. We all know that only takes 60-120amps. I just leave it high, because I like knowing the extra power is there

            It is 3/32.... Id entertain 1/8th, but **** that sounds big.

            And for what its worth, its 4043 rod, and really any grade of aluminum. Everything I fabricate is not structural. Over flow tanks, gas tanks, water tanks, etc.

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            • #7
              Scratch that, I grind both ends of the tungsten, so I was going off memory, not color, and its 2% cerated. Gold or yellow in color?

              What is the correct electrode, and will 2% thoriated, 1/1.5/2% lanthanated work correctly?

              I will bump up to 1/8", but in my 12 years of doing this stuff, I dont think I have EVER bought 1/8" electrodes, which is why its surprising to me..

              Thanks for the comments though, thats why I keep coming back

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              • #8
                OK, I didn't realize that it was only .060 material. Is this happening with just this one tungsten (maybe a bad one?) or is it happening with several? For what you're doing 3/32 tungsten should be plenty. I use 2% lanthanated for everything and I've never had this problem with my Dynasty...

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                • #9
                  cerated has a tendency to split when used for AC. it was designed for DC. although many use it for AC its really not supposed to be used for it. any chance the splitting is causing the tungsten the then melt into lil balls??
                  do you have the same problem with lanthenated???? its an AC or DC tungsten.
                  thanks for the help
                  ......or..........
                  hope i helped
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                  • #10
                    Ok I have to ask,
                    Why 2024? Especially for tanks? Its got horrible corrosion resistance, propensity for cracks.....why do it?

                    -Aaron
                    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

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                    Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

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                    • #11
                      This instance, the material was brought to me and I welded it up, being 2024.

                      Typically, I use 6061 or 5052 on the race car stuff. You are 100% correct on the fact that 2024 is not a material of choice, but I cant turn a customer away. He knew the implications I order all of my material from a Champ car metal supplier in indy, and they recommend a particular material when I tell them what its for.

                      It could be splitting, but I couldnt tell you, honestly. Makes sense, seeing a multitude of small balled up ends.

                      I will try Lanthanated tomorrow. I cant seem to find my stash. Plenty of 2% thoriated and LOTS of pure I cant use anymore....

                      Thanks again. Ill grab some stuff and try it tomorrow.

                      Louis

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                      • #12
                        the ceriated if in fact that is what your using I found did the exact same thing the lang works better I find by far . Im still old school though but when i do use my dyn i use lang I found ceriated split etc.. when doing alum .balance will have to be over 70 to work though or it will ball and spit tung then in which case go to 1/8 tung .
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                        • #13
                          seeing as you sharpen both ends, lanthanated would be a good idea as a due use AC or DC tungsten, just keep one kind on hand like i do. no chance of getting the wrong tungsten, and no splitting issues.
                          2% lanthanated is what i use, happy with it for steel and aluminum. i have not done any fancy metals, just S.Steel, steel and aluminum. but its worked well for all 3 of them.
                          thanks for the help
                          ......or..........
                          hope i helped
                          sigpic
                          feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                          summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                          JAMES

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                          • #14
                            Tungsten splitting

                            Originally posted by Louis View Post
                            Dynasty 200 DX, 1 or 2% Lanthanated, forget what percent, but its what Ive been using since I bought the machine. Balance at ~ 65, freq at ~ 100, Amps at ~ 175 4043 rod, 2024 parent material.

                            It still welds great, but its annoying. Whats the cause?

                            Thanks

                            Louis
                            I experienced the same problem once with pure tungsten. I then tried a ceriated tungsten and then a lanthanated tungsten. All showed the same condition as your picture. There was about 500 psi left in the argon bottle but I switched to a new bottle anyway. The splitting went away on ALL the different tungstens. Curiousity allways gets the best of me. I switched back to the first bottle and the problem immediately returned. I asked my gas supplier to have the suspect bottle tested. He reluctantly agreed and to his credit a few days later he called to say the gas (100% argon) was contaminated with oxygen and moisture. I forget the exact percentages but both were above their "allowable limit".
                            Hope that helps

                            Roger

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                            • #15
                              the tungsten looks contaminated to me (from the discolouration more than the irregular balling)

                              i've had the same irregular balling too (with a v205t). seems to be related to the balance/frequency- the balance has enough EP to try and melt the tip but the frequency means that the tungsten doesn't get hot enough to ball properly hence the irregular shape and arc wander

                              less EP will allow the use of a sharpened tungsten- like some of the others i've found 2% lanthanated (blue) to work the best

                              if more EP is needed (old castings etc) i've found zirconiated to work well. around 65%/100Hz it still can't make it's mind up whether to ball or not- i go old school(ish) and strike an arc at 50% balance to round the tip properly before welding (doesn't give a traditional ball but a perfect crayon shaped tip)

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