Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Interesting dilemma (one for the sparkies who hang out here)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Interesting dilemma (one for the sparkies who hang out here)

    So I'm about to get my rough in inspection on my newly constructed 24x35' workshop addition in my back yard... I have absolutely no worries about the 120/240 side of things, as I have already passed a couple other inspections with flying colors (my sisters basement which had 5 new circuits added to 3 existing circuits - where I added 19 new outlets over 7 walls, and my sub panel which added 6 new circuits in the 2 car attached garage). The inspector for my city even commended my work. No worries there.

    What I'm wondering about, though, is my 3 phase installation and a particular use of 4 conductor dryer plugs to facilitate ease of plug supply (and I like how the flat plugs hug the walls unlike twist locks).

    So here's the deal...

    I haven't actually installed any of the circuits for the 3ph yet.

    I have a roll of 10-3nmb for the circuit - so that covers me up to 10hp.

    The dryer plugs and sockets are rated for 30A.

    The receptacles will all be paralleled circuits, but none of them will be electrically tied into the shops wiring. Essentially, it's a "stand alone" network of connection points which resides inside my walls.

    I plan on having my phase converter plugged into a regular 6-50 outlet and then plugging the converter into one of the outlets on the 3ph circuit just as you would a generator.


    Is there anything about this plan that would raise a flag for the inspector? I know I could just wire it all up like it was a 240v neutral w/ground circuit and then yank the wire between the first outlet on the circuit and remove the breaker after I "passed" - but that's not honest.

    Since the 3ph circuit isn't actually tied into the rest of the system - does he even have any jurisdiction over what I do with the 3ph side of things? I would think it should be treated like a low voltage type situation. After all, there is NO voltage on the circuit until after I get my converter built and installed, at which point he will have no say in the matter.

    I have no idea how to search this question, so I can't go to the library and look up the code myself. I'm also buddies with the head building inspector at the city and he doesn't know enough electrical code to venture a guess.

    If I'm off base with using the dryer sockets, what should I use instead? I don't want hardwire disconnect boxes all over the shop.

    Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
    Syncrowave 250DX
    Invison 354MP
    XR Control and 30A

    Airco MED20 feeder
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
    Smith O/A rig
    And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

  • #2
    This is a very interesting question you ask Jim. I do not have any answers for you but I suspect Hank will. I have been considering doing exactly the same thing for some time now and look foward to the guidance provided here.

    If you don't mind me asking, what are you going to be using the three phase for?

    Good Luck!

    PS. The cooler is still workin great.
    SolidWorks Premium
    SolidWorks Simulation Pro
    MM210 w/3035
    TA185TSW
    DG Piranha II
    Sharpie Deluxe
    Stars & Stripes BWE
    Blue Optrel Satellite

    Comment


    • #3
      My big binder for the electrical code basically says no. The correct 3 phase plug + grounding lug and receptacle must be used for the application perscribed.

      If you happen to have a fire, and this dryer receptacle is found then you would have no insurance coverage. Best to play it safe and install the correct way.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm glad to hear it. I was just deleting some pics of that thing and realized you've had it a full year now.

        I have a Voest DA 210 lathe being delivered sometime in the next 2 days and I'm not positive that it doesn't have the optional 7.5hp motor (it's awful big for a 4hp). I have the owners manual and no motor option is checked, while the other options are all clearly marked.

        Also, I'll be buying a mill around the first of the year if I don't find a smokin deal before then. Seeing as I have $35K in deductions for this year, I'm thinking I should hold off on that one for a bit.

        Other equipment isn't on the immediate horizon, but there is a lot of 3ph stuff out there (shaper, surface grinder, turret lathe). I figure for the couple hundred it costs now, it's better to have unused outlets on the walls than need to rip out the sheet rock and string new runs or add conduit to a maze of shelving. It also gives me the option of where to stick machines if I want to rearrange. God only knows what copper will eventually get up to, so I'm playing it safe and investing now.


        After posting this thread, I looked at outlet and plug specs and found that there are 3ph rated plugs like the ones I chose (slightly different blades) - but they're nearly $100 a socket through graingers. F that!

        I also noticed that you have to go up to a 60A rated socket to get a 10hp rating on them. I was thinking that I would use the 30A ones so that no one down the road would incorrectly think that the wiring was capable of handling 60A (after I'm gone). The price is the same on the 50A version of my plug choice, so I could swap those out with no issues (seeing as a 7.5hp load is my max possibility at this time and I could change the plugs if needed down the road).

        Our inspectors all keep goofy phone hours and I haven't been available to try calling to ask what he thinks.
        Syncrowave 250DX
        Invison 354MP
        XR Control and 30A

        Airco MED20 feeder
        Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
        Smith O/A rig
        And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

        Comment


        • #5
          Cruiser, I hardly think there would be grounds to deny a claim based on the phase of electricity running through a 4 conductor plug and socket.

          Each terminal has to be rated for the max ampacity of the receptacle, so if there's a different leg flowing on the neutral terminal instead of being a return path for a hot - it makes no friggin difference. That's a case I could easily defend myself in court.

          Now, spending $600 for outlets that have a different number stamped on them is insane.
          Syncrowave 250DX
          Invison 354MP
          XR Control and 30A

          Airco MED20 feeder
          Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
          Smith O/A rig
          And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

          Comment


          • #6
            I went through this 2 years ago. I was not paying almost 300.00 for plugs and recepticals. I used the Nema 14-50 plugs and recepticals on my three phase welders. The mill, and drill press are hard wired. This is also the same receptical thats on a trailblazer so for me it works out good. By the way, I saw you don't want to come over to the pit and play, so hows your band saw?

            Comment


            • #7
              The bandsaw is on hold for the moment until I get the new shop done.

              I don't like twist lock connectors for wall plug ins. It's as simple as that. I also don't want disconnects. I guess you missed that part of my original post.
              Syncrowave 250DX
              Invison 354MP
              XR Control and 30A

              Airco MED20 feeder
              Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
              Smith O/A rig
              And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                The bandsaw is on hold for the moment until I get the new shop done.

                I don't like twist lock connectors for wall plug ins. It's as simple as that. I also don't want disconnects. I guess you missed that part of my original post.
                Why don't you want disconnects? Is it the cost, or the difficulty of use?
                I'm thinking that the 3 faze equipment wouldn't be moved in the shop unless you were rearranging the whole layout, in that case you would just be reconnecting the wires one more time, its not that difficult and a disconnect is nice to have. I have one at my welder and one at the milling machine. I must admit though, I wish I could just unplug the welder and move it, after all, its on wheels.
                To all who contribute to this board.
                My sincere thanks , Pete.

                Pureox OA
                Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                Miller Syncrowave 250
                Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                Comment


                • #9
                  Coal, you know **** well joe is trying to start something. Or maybe you really aren't as smart as you think. Maybe you should ignore my posts like others do. I know I wouldn't miss your input.

                  BB, I want to put plugs in because they're easier to work around for everything else. Twist locks stick straight out. I hate that when dealing with large cables. Disconnects take up more wall space and need more serviceable area around them to make and break connections.

                  It's not for ease of the relocation, it's for ease of use when I do need to plug stuff in or move cords if the machine isn't up against a wall.
                  Syncrowave 250DX
                  Invison 354MP
                  XR Control and 30A

                  Airco MED20 feeder
                  Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                  Smith O/A rig
                  And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Coalsmoke View Post
                    Nice! getting a bit pissy are we cause guys are trying to give you a hand again

                    i see we are letting people who were banned back to torment us again.


                    Admin, please inform us what is going on here?
                    The one that dies with the most tools wins

                    If it's worth having, it's worth working for

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      fishy just ran away because Pile Buck was mean to him, not banned from here.

                      He was kicked off Hobart.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I didn't run away from anything. I relocated my landline when I put the addition on the back of the house. Getting internet wasn't a huge priority over the summer since we spent every other weekend at the lake and I had a building to erect. Less distractions was better.

                        Pile buck had nothing to do with the decision.

                        If I was scared, I wouldn't be here now.

                        So thanks for polluting my thread with all this other crap.
                        Syncrowave 250DX
                        Invison 354MP
                        XR Control and 30A

                        Airco MED20 feeder
                        Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                        Smith O/A rig
                        And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          14-50's are NOT twist locks once again you have NO idea what you are talking about. I try to give you some sound advise about what I did in my shop(although probably not legal as they are single phase plugs and recepticals though rated at 50 amp) and you act like a ****. They are available at home depot and lowes for under 10.00 a pop. They are made for dryers and ranges. heres a link....

                          http://www.frentzandsons.com/Hardwar...nfiguratio.htm
                          And you are scared to come to the pit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ok, so you used exactly what I mentioned up front...

                            14-30's is what I was originally thinking, but seeing as the 50A's are rated for 7.5hp, that's what I'll be pushing for with the inspector. I hope he doesn't care.

                            You and everyone at the pit can kiss my exit. I have no interest in giving you the time of day to even register and see what kind of circle jerks you have going. Save the keystrokes, it makes you look like a teenager.
                            Syncrowave 250DX
                            Invison 354MP
                            XR Control and 30A

                            Airco MED20 feeder
                            Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                            Smith O/A rig
                            And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not even an apology huh? Why do you want plugs for machine tools anyway?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X