MM 210 Liner Replacement Question

[davvet2]

I use a 10# spool of wire.

The machine is at the repair center now.

They estimate 2 weeks to get it fixed; will let you know what they diagnose.

Thanks,

Jim

[SundownIII]

davvet2,

Suspect the burn back problem may be related more to technique than machine malfunction.

I have a spare M-25 gun I could send you to try out if you desire. I know it works on my MM251. Bought a Bernard Q300 so the M25 is a spare.

Once the drive rolls are installed correctly (for .030 wire, you should see the .030 markings on the drive roller) you need to adjust the tension per instructions in your owners manual. With the new liner, I would recommend taking a Dremel tool with a cone abrasive and smoothing the inside surface of the liner (lightly polish) to remove any burrs created from cutting. Other than that, you should be good to go.

What stickout are you using? Too little stickout will definitely cause burnback.

What size wire spools are you using? The cast on the smaller spools (ie 2 lb) may contribute to the problems. Have you tried a 10# (or larger) spool of wire?

Let us know what the dealer says.

PM or e-mail me if you want to try another M25.

[Archaic]

Jim:

Diagnosing burn back on a new mig welder can be a truly evil job. There are two sets of variables - the machine and all of it's variables, and your welding technique. Be methodical, don't get frustrated, and you will get it solved.

I have not had the experience that Cruizer has had with the Weld-Aid pads. I run 44 pound rolls of .035 ER70S6 in my MM251. I perodically relube the pads, and a set of pads lasts about half way through the roll, or twenty or so pounds of wire before I change them out. I have no feed issues. I do blow the liner out occasionaly, but I am more concerned with the copper flaking off the wire than with felt parts from the pads. Not saying that it doesn't hapen, I just have not seen it.

The only time that I can feel the wire "sort of grinding" in the liner of my M25 is when I have the gun really kinked in an out of position weld. If you have your cable relatively straight, and are not putting a hard kink at the gun when welding, and you are feeling the wire making that "sort of grinding" feel in the gun handle, then I think that something is definitely going wrong in there. That is also why I advocated the Weld-Aid lube pad. I think the lube gives me a much smoother feed through the liner.

It is my opinion that many M25 guns had trigger problems. From complete failure of the trigger, to an intermittent type loss of contact failure that would/could cause burn back because you were getting a jerky wire feed. My original M25 trigger gave up the ghost after six months.

If you have a decent service center, and if they find the problem, or do not find the problem and tell you that it welds okay for them, take a bunch of 18 ga. metal down there and get them to let you weld with your welder while they watch you. Even if they think they have found and solved the problem a half hour, or hour of your welding would insure that the problem is fixed, or they should be able to determine that something like stick-out, arc length, etc. on your end is contributing to the burn back problem.

Final note. If you read your warranty closely you will see that while you have a 5/3 years warranty on the machine itself, you only have a 90 Day warranty on the M25 gun, and that is for parts only. My service center was good enough to replace my failed M25 gun even though it was three months out of warranty when it failed at six months. Spoolmate Spoolguns are also only covered under the ninety day parts warranty.

Adios----

[Danny]

Is the V groove on your lower drive roll lined up properly with the inlet guide tube, and the liner extending out of the gun cable on the machine end of the assembly?

[cruizer]

The gun will be off warranty.

This (burn back) issue is a process problem, so you will likely be charged $$ when you take it in.

[davvet2]

Hank,

I'm planning to take the welder to the service center instead of trying to fix it myself -- it's still under warranty.

It will be a pain to get loaded in my truck, but - I've put it off long enough!

Thanks,

Jim

[hankj]

Jim,

See if you can get a warranty replacement for the entire M-25 gun. If you've already changed liners, you should not be having this trouble. I've never had a burn-back (except on my first attempt at spray with too short of a stickout) since I brought my machine home. I've run .030 and .035 solid and .035 flux core with no issues at all.

That's how it [B]should[B] be!

Hank

[davvet2]

I truly appreciate all the help and suggestions I've been given on my problems with the 210. I have probably made every mistake known to man on setting it up and trying to make it operational.

I have an ear plug to use as a cleaner, and will install it when changing out the liner.

I hope that the liner solves the problem.

Thanks,

Jim

[cruizer]

Those nice felt cleaners tend to fall apart and plug the input tube and the liner, also cause feeding problems when oil is used.

Best to use a simple foam ear plug. This keeps the liner dry and most importantly **clean** The way it's supposed to be... one ear plug lasts a roll of wire.

I should have noticed that initial picture too. Details, Details...

If you can feel the wire finding in liner, your liner is cut too short at the goose neck, ie, the wire is having a tough time entering the diffuser and tip because there is a gap between the liner and the diffuser

[davvet2]

Thanks, Guys --


I reset the tension today to where it coiled in my hand --- with the rollers in the correct position and drag on the spool. I also installed a weld aid cleaner; I use them on the Century and they sure help.

It's still burning back. This time, I noticed something different -- I can feel the wire binding in the liner. I can move the head of the torch around and it will unstick sometimes --- until it burns back on the contact tip.

So, tomorrow I'm going to my Miller dealer and buy yet another liner.



Jim

[Archaic]

Jim:

Ditto on the above from others. I should have caught this in your first message. Going back and looking hard at the picture I can see .035 on the roll. Which means you are running .030 wire in the .035 groove. If you were told that you should be able to pull wire from the gun with the tension set on the rolls, you were misinformed. Set the tension as per the post from ANTI-GMAW. Any little slip of the wire in the drive rolls and you will get burn back.

One final thought. If you are not using the Weld-Aid wire cleaner pads you ought to give them a try, especially if you have some older spools of wire. Go here - https://weldingsupply.securesites.co...F:OR:terms::PM and scroll down to the pads and open the pdf for an explanation. I use them and swear by them. You will be amazed at the crud they clean off the wire.

Adios-----

[mowjunk]

Mow,


I've changed mine to where boths rollers read .030 facing outside and will give it a try tomorrow.

Thanks,

Jim

I think you'll be alright now, Jim. Let us know how it works....

Mow

[HRB]

It looks like you were running the .030 wire with the .035 grooves, just turning the drive rolls around should do the job. That's why setting up the machine the first time is so important, reading the setup instructions and setting the machine up carefully can make all the difference in the world. Hopefully turning the drive rolls around and checking tension will do the trick.

[Anti-GMAW]

Feeding wire into the palm of your hand means if you hold the palm of your hand in front of the tip and pull the trigger it should feed into your hand without stoping. If it dosn't just keep bunching up in your hand then you need to tighten the tension knob or check that your drive rolls are the correct size. Also make sure the tension nut on the spool is tight enough. When I got my 210 it was prety slopy and the spool would unwind and wrap around the spindle.

[davvet2]

Your wire speed is way too low for voltage tap #2

Sorry, typo -- the speed is set at 28.

Thanks,

Jim