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  • Welding motor mounts-need advice

    New member to the board, hello to all...

    I'm currently building a '41 Willys street rod and it's time to weld in the motor mounts, so I'd like some advice as far as the best procedure...

    Here's my setup:
    Millermatic 175
    C75 gas setup
    capacity for .024, .030, and .035 wire ER70-S6

    I'll try to attach a few pictures of the mounts to give you all an idea of what I need to do. The mount itself is 3/6" thick, while the frame is 1/8" thick.

    Whats the best procedure regarding wire size, welder settings, etc?

    I'm thinking that I should bevel the mount edge for better penetration, and possibly make two passes...
    If I make two passes, should the first one be with the .024 wire at a low current setting to keep the weld puddle small, especially for the vertical welds?
    I could then switch to the .030 or .035 wire and do a second pass all around.
    I understand that I may get better penetration with straight CO2 instead of the C25 mix. Is there really enough difference?

    Either that, or should I just bevel the mount, and make one pass?
    Let me know what you think...

    Steve
    Attached Files
    just passin' thru

  • #2
    Here are my thoughts, defiantly not the only way to approach this.

    I would go with the wire setup you are most confident with. I would think it not necessary to bevel the edge, it can't hurt. I would be welding all around this joint, that is why I say a bevel is not needed. Remove all mill scale and wipe down with solvent (acetone). Your gas mix is fine. I don't give volt and amp settings as your machine running on your power grid with the type of wire you are using and on and on, is all different from what I am using.
    Look up in the online calculator for general starting point and then test your work.


    I would mock up a "test" plate of similar materials and joint configuration, welding both sides then cut it apart and acid etch the weld and look for discontinuities. Or weld only one side and do a brake test, if it brakes any where but the weld it is good.

    Once you have your test and you looked at it if you are not sure what you are looking at post a picture and you will get all kinds of advise. In the end it it your motor and your embarrassment if it falls out at the first car show.

    Good Luck
    TJ
    TJ______________________________________

    Comment


    • #3
      From your pictures it looks like you were using your wire feed to try and copy the Tig weld appearance. Do yourself a favor and lose that approach. While it may work well for Tig, its much less desirable for wire feed as you'll have insufficient penetration along the joint.
      Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
      Miller DialArc 250
      Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
      Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
      Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
      Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
      South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
      Logan 7" shaper
      Ellis 3000 band saw
      Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
      Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
      3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
      Lots of dust bunnies
      Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

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      • #4
        In my shop that machine would eat 3/16, nice and toasty with 030 wire. Hot and fluid. Single pass and no bevel unless the filler needed someplace to go.
        Attached Files

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        • #5
          single pass up hand with .030 would do just fine
          mm210
          maxstar 150

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          • #6
            DO NOT run a first pass at low current settings. 030 bare wire with c-25 single pass will be fine. Weld all around the mount. As said before get a few practice plates to dial in the machine if your not quite sure of the settings. No need to bevel but if it makes you more comfortable then go ahead, it wont hurt it any.
            MM250
            Trailblazer 250g
            22a feeder
            Lincoln ac/dc 225
            Victor O/A
            MM200 black face
            Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
            Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
            Arco roto-phase model M
            Vectrax 7x12 band saw
            Miller spectrum 875
            30a spoolgun w/wc-24
            Syncrowave 250
            RCCS-14

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            • #7
              YES ! Loose the "tack weld" welding , that will get you into more issues then you know.

              Are you welding as it sits or is the frame on a rotating turn table ?

              If you can rotate the frame then weld hot to the thicker steel in horizontal posishion and aim most of your heat to the thicker steel and weave to the 1/8" frame .

              If you cant rotate then make sure you run your welds vertical up and not vertical down and set your welder to 3/16" with a bit less wire speed. (3/16 being your bracket thickness ? )

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              • #8
                You're kidding me. I'd rather have someone weld a GOOD vertical down hot from the horizontal run than a questionable vertical up. Really. Test coupons with vertical down in 1/4" are good enough to qualify on. Just keep the gun as low as possible at all times.

                He can set that nozzle right in there and weave a perfect pass.

                My .02 and I don't make change.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks to all who replied...It looks like a single pass with .030 is what I will do. I fully intend to do a lot of welds on test peices using the same thickness materials before doing the real thing. If I strip the frame down a little more to save weight, I may rotate it so that most of the welding will be horizontal. My intention was always to weld all around the mount. I may bevel just because, but this is something I will also experiment with.


                  WyoRoy & Roospike, those other welds you see in the picture aren't mine....they were done by the chassis manufacturer when the front crossmember was installed.

                  Steve
                  just passin' thru

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Your fit-up looks real good. I think you'll do OK w/single pass. Looks like you'll end up with 10-12 inches of bead all around. Good luck, post pics.
                    AutoArc 230 (MM 210)
                    3035 spoolgun
                    Spectrum 625
                    Dialarc HF w/Coolmate 4

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by djbtech View Post
                      You're kidding me. I'd rather have someone weld a GOOD vertical down hot from the horizontal run than a questionable vertical up. Really. Test coupons with vertical down in 1/4" are good enough to qualify on. Just keep the gun as low as possible at all times.

                      He can set that nozzle right in there and weave a perfect pass.

                      My .02 and I don't make change.
                      No , I'm not kidding .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
                        ...
                        Roospike: advising someone to downhand a life safety joint is irresponsible or foolish when they stated they are not a trained welder.
                        I think that was intended for djb.

                        Dave

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by djbtech View Post
                          You're kidding me. I'd rather have someone weld a GOOD vertical down hot from the horizontal run than a questionable vertical up. Really. Test coupons with vertical down in 1/4" are good enough to qualify on. Just keep the gun as low as possible at all times.

                          He can set that nozzle right in there and weave a perfect pass.

                          My .02 and I don't make change.
                          This I don't understand?

                          The idea of vertical up is to ensure good visibility and enough time to develop and carry the puddle, none of this happens easily with a vertical down weld (exception O/A and GTAW) one of the great benefits of vertical up is the heat build, at some point the two base metals are bound to fuse with the filler. With vertical down it is more likely just to cover the joint with cold lap and non fusion.

                          If the fit up was poor and it needed some gaps filled I would be all for some 6010 close the gap and then fill it out with a nice vertical up cap.

                          TJ
                          TJ______________________________________

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