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  • walker
    replied
    Originally posted by JCFab View Post


    Can we please put the argument to bed???

    Jeff
    That argument was put to bed, until you woke it up 14 years later.

    Leave a comment:


  • G-ManBart
    replied
    [QUOTE=JCFab;n616080]
    Originally posted by G-ManBart View Post

    Evidently not

    You do realize the post before yours was 14 years ago, right?

    I do!
    I finally pulled the trigger and bought a chiller. Decided to check into the magic juice for it. There is so much conflicting information, distilled vs. DI, Ethylene Glycol vs. Polyethylene Glycol.etc.

    At this point I conclude that automotive anti-freeze = BAD (for the stop leak additives). D.I. water also = BAD (it's missing an electron to make it stable).

    I think I need to salute the folks who settled on distilled water and some glycol home brew!

    Thanks for the SDS!!!

    Jeff
    I've been using a 50/50 mix of distilled water and this Cantesco stuff off Amazon. It's good for roughly -16F which is more than enough even if my power goes out in the dead of winter.

    https://www.amazon.com/CANTESCO-CF3-...6706188&sr=8-2

    Leave a comment:


  • JCFab
    replied
    [QUOTE=G-ManBart;n616077]

    Evidently not

    You do realize the post before yours was 14 years ago, right?

    I do!
    I finally pulled the trigger and bought a chiller. Decided to check into the magic juice for it. There is so much conflicting information, distilled vs. DI, Ethylene Glycol vs. Polyethylene Glycol.etc.

    At this point I conclude that automotive anti-freeze = BAD (for the stop leak additives). D.I. water also = BAD (it's missing an electron to make it stable).

    I think I need to salute the folks who settled on distilled water and some glycol home brew!

    Thanks for the SDS!!!

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • G-ManBart
    replied
    Originally posted by JCFab View Post
    Miller ServiceDude,

    You stated "The most important thing about the coolant for Tig is that it is not conductive, if it is it will rob HF away from getting to the end of the torch. RV coolant is conductive. Automotive anti-freeze is not only conductive but the additives in it will attack copper. Everything in a tig system is copper. If you do not have to worry about freezing temps just use distilled water, if you are to worry about freezing temps you should really use a low conductivity coolant, just make sure it it designed for Tig. Copper safe and not conductive !"

    First, can we make the distinction that 'low conductivity' and 'non-conductive'? are two separate categories? Second, chiller manufacturers recommend using a branded coolant because it contains special lubricants to enhance pump life and algaecides to prevent algae but the Miller coolant cannot be found on the website so we don't know what is in it. Third, there is an internet full of reasons NOT to use deionized water in any system that contains metal because the DI water will leach ions from whatever it touches.

    Can we please put the argument to bed???

    Jeff
    Evidently not

    You do realize the post before yours was 14 years ago, right?

    The coolant actually IS on the website, but I don't see the ingredients listed.

    https://www.millerwelds.com/accessor...coolant-043810

    I used the Miller part number and searched for the MSDS and got a hit on Grainger's site....I think this is likely it considering Miller isn'g going to make it themselves.

    http://complyplus.grainger.com/grain...heetid=4016489
    Last edited by G-ManBart; 07-18-2021, 07:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JCFab
    replied
    Miller ServiceDude,

    You stated "The most important thing about the coolant for Tig is that it is not conductive, if it is it will rob HF away from getting to the end of the torch. RV coolant is conductive. Automotive anti-freeze is not only conductive but the additives in it will attack copper. Everything in a tig system is copper. If you do not have to worry about freezing temps just use distilled water, if you are to worry about freezing temps you should really use a low conductivity coolant, just make sure it it designed for Tig. Copper safe and not conductive !"

    First, can we make the distinction that 'low conductivity' and 'non-conductive'? are two separate categories? Second, chiller manufacturers recommend using a branded coolant because it contains special lubricants to enhance pump life and algaecides to prevent algae but the Miller coolant cannot be found on the website so we don't know what is in it. Third, there is an internet full of reasons NOT to use deionized water in any system that contains metal because the DI water will leach ions from whatever it touches.

    Can we please put the argument to bed???

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • mill3rman3
    replied
    sweet

    That chiller looks sweet. I hope it functions as well as it looks!

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    i'll do my best on it, i got a cool can for the tank. just need time and a few more parts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundown
    replied
    Originally posted by fun4now View Post
    show off.
    just kidding, thats a great looking cooler i hope mine comes out 1/4 as nice. but i dought it.
    I'm gonna bet it's going to be just as nice judging by the aluminum cart you made.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    show off.
    just kidding, thats a great looking cooler i hope mine comes out 1/4 as nice. but i dought it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundown
    replied
    If you are looking for ideas here is a picture of the one I made a few years back with the latest update being the blue paint and a antique Miller logo.

    Leave a comment:


  • mill3rman3
    replied
    pics

    acwd1950 can you post some pics of your home made chiller? Interested to see what it looks like.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    well all that seems like a real pain to me. why not just dunp in some green stuff and be done with it ??
    whats so great about this Dexcool that makes it werth all the truble ??
    i have always just used standerd anty freeze at unknown mixtures depending on the size of the radeator i get a diferent mix as i just add 1 bottle anty then water. never had any truble that way. so why would i want to spend the $$ to replace all the caps and super flush then make shore i'm over full and at a 50/50 ratio?? when its easyer to jsut add the green stuff and try to remember to keep some water in the reserve resivor adding water as neded when i think to check it.

    Leave a comment:


  • crawler
    replied
    Originally posted by cunninglinguist View Post
    I'm wondering if the failures you are seeing is from Dexcool.
    I thought the problem with Dexcool was due to people adding dexcool without throughly flushing out the green coolant. I've been running Dexcool in my Dodge truck (Cummins) for over 75K miles without any issues. I made sure I completely flushed out the green coolant.

    From this web site...

    http://www.imcool.com/articles/antif...l-macs2001.htm

    GM’s Jay Dankovich and Equilon Enterprises’ (Texaco) Stede Granger directed a 2-year study of thousands of DEX-COOL cooled vehicles. Armed with the results, they really didn’t have anything bad to say about the coolant. In fact, they strongly defended the product’s reputation. What they revealed to the audience is that specific models of GM vehicles have specific cooling system contamination problems. And essentially, that DEX-COOL is not the culprit!
    Their presentation started with a 14-minute video that is now being circulated to technicians at GM dealers nationwide. In the video, GM’s trainers succinctly described the problems that have been found and the corresponding corrective actions to be taken by technicians.

    Suggestion. This video is a “must see” for all technicians considering themselves antifreeze/coolant experts. Without this information, your cooling system service knowledge of late model GM vehicles is severely limited. Seriously!
    Fortunately, you can buy the video for only $10 (plus S&H). Call MSX International of Auburn Hills, Michigan at 800-393-4831. Ask for the DEX-COOL Video: “Understanding Radiator Cap and Cooling System Contamination.” Part number: RADCAPK. Immediately following this article is a report on this training video by John Brunner, recently retired GM field service representative.

    What was said at the presentation? Besides the video, Jay and Stede included their personal observations about the study. At the end, they fielded several questions from the audience. Here’s a recap of their entire presentation.

    1. Keep the cooling system filled. In fact, fill the reservoir bottle to “Hot” level when the system is cold. Problems arise when a system’s coolant level is not maintained. (Fleet vehicles receiving regular maintenance, and with reservoirs kept slightly above normal, do not show signs of contamination. This even applies to the specific “problem” vehicles.)

    2. The coolant problems found in this survey were caused by system contamination, and not due to the breakdown of DEX-COOL.

    3. Check and keep the pressure cap clean and functioning. A contaminated and/or malfunctioning cap causes low coolant levels, which in turn causes overheating and a greater loss of coolant: the notorious vicious cycle. No matter what the vehicle, if the cooling system acts suspiciously, test the pressure cap.

    4. On the ST vehicle models mentioned in the GM DEX-COOL video, you “must” replace all suspect radiator caps, especially those with a Drop-Center design, with a Stant Model 10230 or 11230 (Spring-Center type). (Just do it.)

    5. Make sure that the coolant is at a 50-50 mix. Often, the flush water was not being removed from the engine block. Consequently, when a 50-50 mix is added to the system the resultant mixture could approach 30-70. Like any fluid that has been diluted beyond its recommended levels, the lowered level of inhibitors will not be able to protect the coolant system effectively. Low levels of inhibitors can cause pitting on aluminum surfaces and general corrosion of cooling system metals.

    Cutaway of Drop-Center CapLeft: Drop-center, “vented” radiator pressure cap. GM found this cap (like the Stant 10231) to be less helpful than a Spring-center cap (shown below) in controlling the formation of contaminants in the cooling system. If contamination forms, the debris fouls the valve and restricts its ability to seal. In turn, the coolant boils at a lower temperature. Coolant loss is accelerated and so is the accumulation of contaminants.

    Cutaway of Spring-Center CapLeft: Spring-center, sealed radiator pressure cap (like the Stant 10230). This is the preferred cap for GM applications that are more prone to accumulating cooling system contaminants.

    6. A safe method of achieving a true 50-50 mix is to first determine the actual capacity of the system (use the owner’s manual). Then add 50% of “that” amount of undiluted DEX-COOL (or any coolant), and top it off with water.

    7. Mixing a “green” coolant with DEX-COOL reduces the batch’s change interval to 2 years or 30,000 miles, but will otherwise cause no damage to the engine. In order to change back to DEX-COOL however, the cooling system must first be thoroughly drained and flushed.

    8. Bacteria cannot live in a hot, Ethylene Glycol environment and is therefore not a threat to DEX-COOL.

    9. While there have been intake gasket failures on CK Series, V8 powered vehicles for various reasons, DEX-COOL has never been found as a cause.

    10. Use a refractometer to check the condition of DEX-COOL. Its inhibitor package is strong enough that if the batch still provides proper freeze protection, it is probably still providing proper corrosion protection as well.

    11. DEX-COOL can handle the minerals in hard water better than silicated conventional chemistry coolants. Drinkable water is suitable for top off.

    12. In ST Blazer applications where the radiator cap is mounted at an angle to the ground, the vehicle is more susceptible to radiator cap contamination and its related problems. The Stant 10230 is a wise choice for these vehicles. $$$

    Below are findings from local Northern California cooling system service shops that supplement the article above.

    Leave a comment:


  • 10sec.et
    replied
    Originally posted by cunninglinguist View Post
    I'm wondering if the failures you are seeing is from Dexcool.

    it is quite possible because the high corrosion does seem to be limited mostly to vehicles using Dexcool. its not really an issue with the Asian and European imports.

    Leave a comment:


  • cunninglinguist
    replied
    I don't doubt you guys. Its just your real world experiences goes against what I've been reading about in the last month.

    You see, I just put in a nice new aluminum radiator in my Chevy van and wanted to get some Toyota red antifreeze (which is highly regarded in the Toyota crowd and I do own a Toyota pickup). I went to the local Canadian Tire and picked up some orange Dexcool which at the time I thought was the same stuff under a different name. When I got home I googled it and I found that there were a lot of GM cooling failures from using this stuff so I returned it. It is not the same as Toyota red.

    I got the normal green stuff and found that aside from protecting from freezing, antifreeze is supposed to lubricate water pumps and has additives that protect metal surfaces.

    I'm wondering if the failures you are seeing is from Dexcool.

    Leave a comment:

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