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  • #31
    This first link is the rotary table I am looking at. At first I was thinking the 6" but my buddy Dave and you guys convinced me to go with at least 8". The 10" is getting pretty heavy for me to move around in my condition so I think that will limit me to the 8. Dave made a good point that by the time I attach clamps to the 6" there isn't much room left. I like this style because it has more T slots and also the scroll chuck will bolt to it without a back plate.

    http://www.msdiscount.com/store/colu...n_id=887888781


    This second link is the scroll chuck I am considering. The 5" 4 jaw is what I originally was thinking of. The way it looks in the add is that all the 4 jaw chucks have 2 piece jaws. Here is where I'm not sure if bigger is better, I'm afraid that a chuck thats grossly larger than my work might be a hindrance. I am going to discuss this with my friend Dave before I make any decision though.

    http://www.msdiscount.com/store/colu...n_id=887888781
    To all who contribute to this board.
    My sincere thanks , Pete.

    Pureox OA
    Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
    Miller Syncrowave 250
    Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

    Comment


    • #32
      Pete,
      Because of your particular situation you might wish to look into some form of jib crane located in back of your mill/drill to aid in the installation of your rotary table, chucks or vise. Heck, nowadays even a Kurt 6" isn't anything to sneeze at if you have to lift it on and off the table very often. Doesn't take much of a jib crane...swinging bracket and a section of cable will work. As the mill/drills don't have a knee to raise to take the tension of the load, you'll need some cheap and easy method to raise and lower your load instead...boat trailer winch would work, but you can probably cobble something up even cheaper than that.

      Here are a couple of ideas...they are all "store bought", but with a bit of time and the scrap box you shouldn't have much difficulty cobbling up a suitable cure to an aching back.
      Attached Files
      Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
      Miller DialArc 250
      Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
      Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
      Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
      Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
      South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
      Logan 7" shaper
      Ellis 3000 band saw
      Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
      Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
      3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
      Lots of dust bunnies
      Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

      Comment


      • #33
        Great Idea WyoRoy!

        WyoRoy has an excellent idea there. I have something in my shop that might be applicable for you. I used a track for an sliding barn door and mounted it to the center support beam in the shop. Attached to the track is a Harbor Freight electric hoist. Power is supplied by one of the extension cords in a retractable reel.



        BY situating the mill at one end of the track and the lathe at the other end, I can use the hoist to move heavy objects to and from the tools. The hoist can also serve to hold the end of long work pieces.

        The nice thing about this arrangement was cost. The hoist was around $60 and the track (20' long) plus trolleys was less than $100. The track is rated at 600 lbs and the hoist at 800 lbs ( - realistically more like 400). Anyhow this works slick as a whistle. The track spans the width of the shop, so I can back the truck or trailer into the middle of the shop and load/unload from them too.

        This really saves the back. It's kind of a poor mans overhead crane. It has it limits, but used wisely it can't be beat.
        Synchrowave 180
        Millermatic 210
        Spectrum 375

        Comment


        • #34
          A fellow e-mailed me pictures of a Luson International MD, he wants $750.00 for it. I don't think its worth it unless he has a lot of extras to go with it. He put a new 2 hp single faze motor on it.
          Whats funny though, is I googled it to try and find some information on it and what I found is this law suit with the international trade commission about all these companies copying Bridgeport. There is 43 company's on there, some pretty familiar ones. One of the company's used the name "Bigport".
          Its pretty long but interesting to read.

          http://books.google.com/books?id=4hj...ghUdns#PPP1,M1

          There is a full screen button on the top right that makes it a little easier to read.
          Attached Files
          To all who contribute to this board.
          My sincere thanks , Pete.

          Pureox OA
          Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
          Miller Syncrowave 250
          Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

          Comment


          • #35
            Pete,
            Just a question...you are in a fairly decent area for used machine tools. Do you have enough room in your shop for a full fledged milling machine? Depending upon the type of work you want to do, a horizontal mill might not be out of the question. They do usually cost less for the abilities they bring to the table...I'm still looking around for a good quality and CHEAP Atlas or Clausing horz. mill to help the old Bridgeport out. These days a non-CNC mill like an old Bridgeport doesn't bring all that much on the secondary market...too expensive to run in a commercial shop when you factor in the wages of the typical operator. They are really a heck of a lot more useful as prototype or small product run machines. Check out all the alternatives as well...the Bridgeport mill is not the best by any means, just the most numerous. Look around for Wells Index, Tree, etc. There are also a ton of clones out there...many bought and little used by hobbyist machinists who have grown tired of them or purchased them in their twilight years.

            The reason I ask the question is that most larger mills offer a knee table. This is a great feature to have. Makes drilling large diameter holes a whale of a lot easier. As I said before, take your time and get the machine that really fits your needs as the amount of cash you are about to spend isn't a pittance.
            Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
            Miller DialArc 250
            Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
            Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
            Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
            Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
            South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
            Logan 7" shaper
            Ellis 3000 band saw
            Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
            Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
            3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
            Lots of dust bunnies
            Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

            Comment


            • #36
              Benchtop Mill

              I will be buying a bench top mill that will CNC parts and act like a standard mill (XYZ axes). So far the only one that will work for me is the cnc express mill from MicroKinetics for $7000 . Go to www.microkinetics.com for more info. The mill should use use my notebook running windows xp for a computer and have a chip gaurd and tool lubrication. A test for a usable mill is plunking down a piece of 6" by 9" by 20" aluminum and machinig it. If anybody knows of a good machine please tell me!
              Lee
              Think Alot
              Learn Alot
              Read Alot
              And Then Do It Again & Again

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by WyoRoy View Post
                Pete,
                Just a question...you are in a fairly decent area for used machine tools. Do you have enough room in your shop for a full fledged milling machine?
                Actually I don't have room for the bench top unit, see the attached picture. The farm is about 300 acres so there is room to expand. There is an old barn I have been thinking of turning into a shop, but it will require a lot of work, it might be cheaper to have a larger shop built but that would be way down the road (in the future).

                Originally posted by leeschaumberg View Post
                I will be buying a bench top mill that will CNC parts and act like a standard mill (XYZ axes). So far the only one that will work for me is the cnc express mill from MicroKinetics for $7000 . Go to www.microkinetics.com for more info.
                Lee
                That looks pretty slick! I noticed they also have a retrofit kit for any of the bench top style mill/drills. The only thing I'm not clear on is if you need a mill/drill with the power downfeed option to use the retrofit kit.
                Attached Files
                To all who contribute to this board.
                My sincere thanks , Pete.

                Pureox OA
                Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                Miller Syncrowave 250
                Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                Comment


                • #38
                  Pete,
                  Gut answer without a thing to support it is that you would not need the power downfeed for the CNC retrofit. The power downfeed is there only for the times you wish to hone/bore a cylinder in order to get a smooth consistant feed rate that will let you obtain the best possible surface finish. I could well be wrong on this, but I doubt it. I would venture to take another guess and say the retrofit would use the drill press style manual downfeed for actuation. When it gets time to seriously think which mill you are going to go with call the appropriate CNC retrofit company and ask them all the particulars. They may also be able to give you a heads-up on which mill/drills make the best conversions.

                  There is nothing like buying a mill to get a man to loss all sense of perspective. The "I want it now!!!" syndrome takes over early on followed by the "I can get this with it too!!!" malady. Take your time, its a big chunk of change. A slip now may mean years of having to deal with whatever failings the machine you jumped on may have.

                  BTW, take my guesses for what they are and with a heavy dose of salt...I don't own a non-knee based mill nor have I had any experience with them.
                  Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                  Miller DialArc 250
                  Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                  Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                  Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                  Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                  South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                  Logan 7" shaper
                  Ellis 3000 band saw
                  Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                  Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                  3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                  Lots of dust bunnies
                  Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Mill Capabilities

                    A power down feed is the Z axis! So if the machine is truly a CNC machine it has the Z axis. Enlarging an engine bore is a normal manual operation. This is the number one manual operation. Hope I answered your question. Lee
                    Think Alot
                    Learn Alot
                    Read Alot
                    And Then Do It Again & Again

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Pete,
                      There you go with another explanation from a mill/drill user. I guess the mill/drills have very little in common with a common knee mill. The power feed on mine is unrelated to the quill feed handle and will only handle up to a 3/8" drill bit or a boring bar and light feed before the clutch will kick out. As I said before, take my guesses with a grain of salt as I have no experience whatsoever on a mill/drill. Still, I would rather see a cylinder bored or honed in power feed...just as I would wish to have any axes power fed to produce a better/finer surface finish.
                      Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                      Miller DialArc 250
                      Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                      Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                      Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                      Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                      South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                      Logan 7" shaper
                      Ellis 3000 band saw
                      Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                      Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                      3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                      Lots of dust bunnies
                      Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I'm confused

                        Originally posted by leeschaumberg View Post
                        A power down feed is the Z axis! So if the machine is truly a CNC machine it has the Z axis. Enlarging an engine bore is a normal manual operation. This is the number one manual operation. Hope I answered your question. Lee
                        I'm not sure I understand your statement about enlarging an engine bore being a normal manual operation. If the goal is to create a consistent finish on the ID of a cylinder bore, I cannot imagine doing that operation manually. A power downfeed would be a must for that type of procedure I would think.

                        Could you explain your reasoning on that statement?

                        Thanks,
                        Dan
                        Synchrowave 180
                        Millermatic 210
                        Spectrum 375

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by WyoRoy View Post
                          Pete,
                          The reason that the 4" Kurt vises are so much more than the 6" versions is related to the lower manufacturing cost...over time...of the 6" units. Since the 4" models are not the industry standard and sell at a slower rate than the 6" models they take longer to pay back the manufacturer's tooling, casting, whatever expenses. Rather than lower the price to a comparable level and wait around for a profit Kurt has decided to recoup its expenditures at an accelerated rate. Standard business practice, if you will.

                          As far as the differences between the Enco and Rung-Fu mill/drills and the Jet goes, there may be none. There may also be substantial differences. Many, and I don't know if the Jet units falls into this category, machine tools sourced from either Taiwan or China are nearly identical to each other. My 14 x 40 Jet lathe is close kin to the Grizzly model with only very subtle differences...paint and a jimcrack here and there. Take the time to delve into the manufacturer's parts manuals on-line and see what you are getting for your money. the only reason I purchased the Jet was because it was available locally and I didn't have to pay shipping...which more or less made the difference in price a non-issue. The expense of a mill/drill is a substantial investment...take the time to get the best machine for the money. After that, happy chips!!!

                          Jet and enco

                          We have some Jet and enco drill presses around and if they didn't come out
                          of the same factory with different name plates, I'd be surprised, although
                          Taiwanese are pretty good at doing knock offs, but other than the name and the paint job --- my jet stuff usually has a green trim, and the enco has a red trim---they are not recognizable as different.

                          This might not apply to all products however, as 'Jet' and I assume enco
                          are us marketing names and t hey may not use the same supplier for everything.
                          rvannatta
                          www.vannattabros.com
                          Miller Bobcat 225G
                          Miller Big 40 ('79 gasser)<gone>
                          Miller 375 Plasma cutter<gone>
                          Lincoln Vantage 400
                          Lincoln Pro-Cut 80

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by leeschaumberg View Post
                            I will be buying a bench top mill that will CNC parts and act like a standard mill (XYZ axes). So far the only one that will work for me is the cnc express mill from MicroKinetics for $7000 . Go to www.microkinetics.com for more info.
                            Lee
                            Hay Lee; I came across this one while I was rearching around, Its a little cheaper.

                            http://www.cncmasters.com/CNC%20Jr%20Mill.htm

                            Microkinetics uses Rong Fu RF31, They are going to call me back as to weather or not the can convert one with a power downfeed.
                            To all who contribute to this board.
                            My sincere thanks , Pete.

                            Pureox OA
                            Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                            Miller Syncrowave 250
                            Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              A few weeks ago I saw the same Microkinetics setup you are talking about on e-pay with a BIN of $2900. Take your time because there are some good deals if you have the time to wait for them.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Benchtop Mill

                                ivans ---
                                For all engine boring I've only used power feed. So when some body asks me why I need power feed I tell them. After boring use a hone for the pattern and the last .002 .

                                burningbriar---
                                CNC Masters has just changed thier prices. This must have happened in the last few days. I guess I'll have to go slow!

                                For the info - Thanks Lee
                                Think Alot
                                Learn Alot
                                Read Alot
                                And Then Do It Again & Again

                                Comment

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