Mill/Drill

[burninbriar]

This first link is the rotary table I am looking at. At first I was thinking the 6" but my buddy Dave and you guys convinced me to go with at least 8". The 10" is getting pretty heavy for me to move around in my condition so I think that will limit me to the 8. Dave made a good point that by the time I attach clamps to the 6" there isn't much room left. I like this style because it has more T slots and also the scroll chuck will bolt to it without a back plate.

http://www.msdiscount.com/store/colu...n_id=887888781


This second link is the scroll chuck I am considering. The 5" 4 jaw is what I originally was thinking of. The way it looks in the add is that all the 4 jaw chucks have 2 piece jaws. Here is where I'm not sure if bigger is better, I'm afraid that a chuck thats grossly larger than my work might be a hindrance. I am going to discuss this with my friend Dave before I make any decision though.

http://www.msdiscount.com/store/colu...n_id=887888781

[WyoRoy]

Pete,
Because of your particular situation you might wish to look into some form of jib crane located in back of your mill/drill to aid in the installation of your rotary table, chucks or vise. Heck, nowadays even a Kurt 6" isn't anything to sneeze at if you have to lift it on and off the table very often. Doesn't take much of a jib crane...swinging bracket and a section of cable will work. As the mill/drills don't have a knee to raise to take the tension of the load, you'll need some cheap and easy method to raise and lower your load instead...boat trailer winch would work, but you can probably cobble something up even cheaper than that.

Here are a couple of ideas...they are all "store bought", but with a bit of time and the scrap box you shouldn't have much difficulty cobbling up a suitable cure to an aching back.

[ivans]

Great Idea WyoRoy!

WyoRoy has an excellent idea there. I have something in my shop that might be applicable for you. I used a track for an sliding barn door and mounted it to the center support beam in the shop. Attached to the track is a Harbor Freight electric hoist. Power is supplied by one of the extension cords in a retractable reel.



BY situating the mill at one end of the track and the lathe at the other end, I can use the hoist to move heavy objects to and from the tools. The hoist can also serve to hold the end of long work pieces.

The nice thing about this arrangement was cost. The hoist was around $60 and the track (20' long) plus trolleys was less than $100. The track is rated at 600 lbs and the hoist at 800 lbs ( - realistically more like 400). Anyhow this works slick as a whistle. The track spans the width of the shop, so I can back the truck or trailer into the middle of the shop and load/unload from them too.

This really saves the back. It's kind of a poor mans overhead crane. It has it limits, but used wisely it can't be beat.

[burninbriar]

A fellow e-mailed me pictures of a Luson International MD, he wants $750.00 for it. I don't think its worth it unless he has a lot of extras to go with it. He put a new 2 hp single faze motor on it.
Whats funny though, is I googled it to try and find some information on it and what I found is this law suit with the international trade commission about all these companies copying Bridgeport. There is 43 company's on there, some pretty familiar ones. One of the company's used the name "Bigport".
Its pretty long but interesting to read.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4hj...ghUdns#PPP1,M1

There is a full screen button on the top right that makes it a little easier to read.

[WyoRoy]

Pete,
Just a question...you are in a fairly decent area for used machine tools. Do you have enough room in your shop for a full fledged milling machine? Depending upon the type of work you want to do, a horizontal mill might not be out of the question. They do usually cost less for the abilities they bring to the table...I'm still looking around for a good quality and CHEAP Atlas or Clausing horz. mill to help the old Bridgeport out. These days a non-CNC mill like an old Bridgeport doesn't bring all that much on the secondary market...too expensive to run in a commercial shop when you factor in the wages of the typical operator. They are really a heck of a lot more useful as prototype or small product run machines. Check out all the alternatives as well...the Bridgeport mill is not the best by any means, just the most numerous. Look around for Wells Index, Tree, etc. There are also a ton of clones out there...many bought and little used by hobbyist machinists who have grown tired of them or purchased them in their twilight years.

The reason I ask the question is that most larger mills offer a knee table. This is a great feature to have. Makes drilling large diameter holes a whale of a lot easier. As I said before, take your time and get the machine that really fits your needs as the amount of cash you are about to spend isn't a pittance.

[leeschaumberg]

Benchtop Mill

I will be buying a bench top mill that will CNC parts and act like a standard mill (XYZ axes). So far the only one that will work for me is the cnc express mill from MicroKinetics for $7000 . Go to www.microkinetics.com for more info. The mill should use use my notebook running windows xp for a computer and have a chip gaurd and tool lubrication. A test for a usable mill is plunking down a piece of 6" by 9" by 20" aluminum and machinig it. If anybody knows of a good machine please tell me!
Lee

[burninbriar]

Pete,
Just a question...you are in a fairly decent area for used machine tools. Do you have enough room in your shop for a full fledged milling machine?

Actually I don't have room for the bench top unit, see the attached picture. The farm is about 300 acres so there is room to expand. There is an old barn I have been thinking of turning into a shop, but it will require a lot of work, it might be cheaper to have a larger shop built but that would be way down the road (in the future).

I will be buying a bench top mill that will CNC parts and act like a standard mill (XYZ axes). So far the only one that will work for me is the cnc express mill from MicroKinetics for $7000 . Go to www.microkinetics.com for more info.
Lee

That looks pretty slick! I noticed they also have a retrofit kit for any of the bench top style mill/drills. The only thing I'm not clear on is if you need a mill/drill with the power downfeed option to use the retrofit kit.

[WyoRoy]

Pete,
Gut answer without a thing to support it is that you would not need the power downfeed for the CNC retrofit. The power downfeed is there only for the times you wish to hone/bore a cylinder in order to get a smooth consistant feed rate that will let you obtain the best possible surface finish. I could well be wrong on this, but I doubt it. I would venture to take another guess and say the retrofit would use the drill press style manual downfeed for actuation. When it gets time to seriously think which mill you are going to go with call the appropriate CNC retrofit company and ask them all the particulars. They may also be able to give you a heads-up on which mill/drills make the best conversions.

There is nothing like buying a mill to get a man to loss all sense of perspective. The "I want it now!!!" syndrome takes over early on followed by the "I can get this with it too!!!" malady. Take your time, its a big chunk of change. A slip now may mean years of having to deal with whatever failings the machine you jumped on may have.

BTW, take my guesses for what they are and with a heavy dose of salt...I don't own a non-knee based mill nor have I had any experience with them.

[leeschaumberg]

Mill Capabilities

A power down feed is the Z axis! So if the machine is truly a CNC machine it has the Z axis. Enlarging an engine bore is a normal manual operation. This is the number one manual operation. Hope I answered your question. Lee

[WyoRoy]

Pete,
There you go with another explanation from a mill/drill user. I guess the mill/drills have very little in common with a common knee mill. The power feed on mine is unrelated to the quill feed handle and will only handle up to a 3/8" drill bit or a boring bar and light feed before the clutch will kick out. As I said before, take my guesses with a grain of salt as I have no experience whatsoever on a mill/drill. Still, I would rather see a cylinder bored or honed in power feed...just as I would wish to have any axes power fed to produce a better/finer surface finish.

[ivans]

I'm confused

A power down feed is the Z axis! So if the machine is truly a CNC machine it has the Z axis. Enlarging an engine bore is a normal manual operation. This is the number one manual operation. Hope I answered your question. Lee

I'm not sure I understand your statement about enlarging an engine bore being a normal manual operation. If the goal is to create a consistent finish on the ID of a cylinder bore, I cannot imagine doing that operation manually. A power downfeed would be a must for that type of procedure I would think.

Could you explain your reasoning on that statement?

Thanks,
Dan

[Rvannatta]

Pete,
The reason that the 4" Kurt vises are so much more than the 6" versions is related to the lower manufacturing cost...over time...of the 6" units. Since the 4" models are not the industry standard and sell at a slower rate than the 6" models they take longer to pay back the manufacturer's tooling, casting, whatever expenses. Rather than lower the price to a comparable level and wait around for a profit Kurt has decided to recoup its expenditures at an accelerated rate. Standard business practice, if you will.

As far as the differences between the Enco and Rung-Fu mill/drills and the Jet goes, there may be none. There may also be substantial differences. Many, and I don't know if the Jet units falls into this category, machine tools sourced from either Taiwan or China are nearly identical to each other. My 14 x 40 Jet lathe is close kin to the Grizzly model with only very subtle differences...paint and a jimcrack here and there. Take the time to delve into the manufacturer's parts manuals on-line and see what you are getting for your money. the only reason I purchased the Jet was because it was available locally and I didn't have to pay shipping...which more or less made the difference in price a non-issue. The expense of a mill/drill is a substantial investment...take the time to get the best machine for the money. After that, happy chips!!!

Jet and enco

We have some Jet and enco drill presses around and if they didn't come out
of the same factory with different name plates, I'd be surprised, although
Taiwanese are pretty good at doing knock offs, but other than the name and the paint job --- my jet stuff usually has a green trim, and the enco has a red trim---they are not recognizable as different.

This might not apply to all products however, as 'Jet' and I assume enco
are us marketing names and t hey may not use the same supplier for everything.

[burninbriar]

I will be buying a bench top mill that will CNC parts and act like a standard mill (XYZ axes). So far the only one that will work for me is the cnc express mill from MicroKinetics for $7000 . Go to www.microkinetics.com for more info.
Lee

Hay Lee; I came across this one while I was rearching around, Its a little cheaper.

http://www.cncmasters.com/CNC%20Jr%20Mill.htm

Microkinetics uses Rong Fu RF31, They are going to call me back as to weather or not the can convert one with a power downfeed.

[rmack898]

A few weeks ago I saw the same Microkinetics setup you are talking about on e-pay with a BIN of $2900. Take your time because there are some good deals if you have the time to wait for them.

[leeschaumberg]

Benchtop Mill

ivans ---
For all engine boring I've only used power feed. So when some body asks me why I need power feed I tell them. After boring use a hone for the pattern and the last .002 .

burningbriar---
CNC Masters has just changed thier prices. This must have happened in the last few days. I guess I'll have to go slow!

For the info - Thanks Lee