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  • Mill/Drill

    I decided to start a new thread carrying on from the self centerin vice thread.
    I am seriously concidering a milldrill, I'm looking at the Jet 350020.

    KB & Percission;
    I was wondering what the jaw width is on youre Kurt vice's? I was thinking I would like the 4" but it is $100 - $200 more than the 6", don't understand why.
    To all who contribute to this board.
    My sincere thanks , Pete.

    Pureox OA
    Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
    Miller Syncrowave 250
    Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

  • #2
    The Kurt I have, D675, is 6" jaw width, 7.5" opening between the fixed & moving jaw. One or both jaw plates can be moved outboard to hold larger parts.

    The D688 is 6" jaw width, 8.8" opening. Those are the two most popular & least expensive Kurts.

    Click here for info.
    Barry Milton
    ____________________

    HTP Invertig 201
    HTP MIG2400

    Miller Trailblazer 302, Spoolmatic 30A, Suitcase 12RC
    Clarke Hotshot

    Comment


    • #3
      Pete,
      Barry is right on with the measurements. I have the D688 and if I were you, I would go with the extra capacity that the 6 in can give you. You may not think you need it now but I guarantee you won't regret it.

      As for deciding between the D675 and D688, it's not much difference in opening but the D688 give you a fixed jaw with a groove and a small groove lock stop. Two features that IMHO are handy if you do repetetive parts.

      http://www.kurtworkholding.com/workh.../anglock_d.php

      http://www.kurtworkholding.com/acces...roove_lock.php

      If I were you, I would bag the Jet and get the Rong-Fu that is on sale right now at Enco. The Jet is most likely made by Rong-Fu anyway. I have the MSC badged version made by RF and it is awesome.

      http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
      Dynasty 350DX
      Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
      MM 350P
      MM Passport Plus
      Spectrum 375 Extreme
      08' Trailblazer 302

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KB Fabrications View Post

        If I were you, I would bag the Jet and get the Rong-Fu that is on sale right now at Enco. The Jet is most likely made by Rong-Fu anyway. I have the MSC badged version made by RF and it is awesome.

        http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
        Do you have power down feed on it? Two things that impress me with the Jet 350020 is the power down feed and the extra length between the quill and the table , 26" vs 18". I think that would be really helpfull if I use a rotary table.

        http://www.jettools.com/shop/index.c...9472&tab=Specs
        To all who contribute to this board.
        My sincere thanks , Pete.

        Pureox OA
        Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
        Miller Syncrowave 250
        Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

        Comment


        • #5
          I do not have the power downfeed on mine. I have actually gotten used to, and like, the fine feed option that mine has. One of my clients has a few of the RF mill/drills that do have the PDF and they have had to modify all of them to go slow enough for their tasks. From what I was told, they thought that the slow feed is much to fast for most tasks they perform. I do have a similar PDF on my Ellis 9400 but it works synergically with the spindle speed which is a better design IMHO.

          The extra distance between the quill and the table is a big plus and I did not realize Jet had a model with that much. I guess it will come down to how much you want to spend. I remember when I was looking the Jets were quite a bit more expensive.
          Dynasty 350DX
          Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
          MM 350P
          MM Passport Plus
          Spectrum 375 Extreme
          08' Trailblazer 302

          Comment


          • #6
            The Jet 350020 is a little over $2,000 , quite a differance from where I started in my Grizzly catalog. Their smallest one goes for $925.
            Like I said in the other thread, I keep going a little bit more, then just alittle bit more untill I go WHOOOWA$$$$. But I really like the extra hight on the jet and pretty much settled on it.
            With the extra stuff I need to get going I'm up to about $4,000 but I'm trying to wean that down. I might put off the power table feed for a while and a buddy of mine tells me Lyndex collets are not the best but good enough and will save me money there. Also he mentioned Phaze 2 to save money on some stuff but says I should stick with the Kurt vice if I can. I agree with him on the vice.
            To all who contribute to this board.
            My sincere thanks , Pete.

            Pureox OA
            Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
            Miller Syncrowave 250
            Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

            Comment


            • #7
              As for the vises, get the kurt! I bouught the harbor freight mill/drill and the grey indian vice with both jaws moving. I finally got a kurt d688 and it's great! Nothing slips, no more broken bits or screwed up parts right when youre bout to finish. Also, for the harbor freight mill/drill anyway (the red one $900), replace the chuck with a jacobs. It'll save aggrevation as well as the shanks on your drill bits. I use my mill daily and have no regrets for buying it. However, the 1,2,3, transmission dont work, hi low does. I took the motor and top off, put the yoke back in place and it worked a few times. Anybody know why the yoke won't stay put ?

              i grow grass
              life is short, sod it
              jas-b
              NC -USA

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jas-b View Post
                I took the motor and top off, put the yoke back in place and it worked a few times. Anybody know why the yoke won't stay put ?

                i grow grass
                life is short, sod it
                jas-b
                NC -USA
                Next time you have it apart you should tak a picture and post it. You might be able to remanufacture one with a better fit.
                To all who contribute to this board.
                My sincere thanks , Pete.

                Pureox OA
                Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                Miller Syncrowave 250
                Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is anyone familiar with the Vertex brand? I am looking at them for the rotary table and boring head.
                  To all who contribute to this board.
                  My sincere thanks , Pete.

                  Pureox OA
                  Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                  Miller Syncrowave 250
                  Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Unless you anticipate boring/honing a pile of cylinders, I would recommend that you check out a mill drill with the power table feed instead of the power down feed. You'll find it far more useful and your overall surface finish will be much improved.

                    If Enco has a similarly sized mill/drill with as much headroom, I believe they are offering free shipping right now...seems like I received an e-mail from them several days ago with that offer. Could save you some money.
                    Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                    Miller DialArc 250
                    Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                    Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                    Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                    Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                    South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                    Logan 7" shaper
                    Ellis 3000 band saw
                    Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                    Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                    3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                    Lots of dust bunnies
                    Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Jet is the only one I have found with 26" clearance between the quill and the table, I have pretty much made my mind up on that. The power feed for the table can be added at any time if I don't get it now.

                      Right now I am looking into the other equipment to go with it, Vertex has a rotary table and a boring head set that looks pretty nice and the price doesn't seem bad. $379 for the 8" R-table and $383 for the boring head kit.

                      Anyone familliar with Vertex?
                      To all who contribute to this board.
                      My sincere thanks , Pete.

                      Pureox OA
                      Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                      Miller Syncrowave 250
                      Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do you have power down feed on it?
                        Power down on a m-d (or on a Bpt) is nearly worthless, IMO. Because it's a clutched downfeed, and because you have so little power available, it is not worth paying for. Take it if it's free.

                        Have I ever used power down on a Bpt? Certainly, when boring. Have I ever missed power down on my Enco m-d? Not for a minute. As far a drilling goes, the power down produces less force than a human hand attached to a 185# body

                        Power table is worth the extra bucks.

                        Best toolholding option, IMO, is a set of Bison ER-40 collets. .125 to 1.040 with no gaps, used for drilling, tapping & milling. R8 collets suck in comparison.

                        Rotary table? EBay always has a number of Troykes & Yuasa's, which are at least ten times better built than the best import. 9"-10" is a good size for a m-d. You can easily add an aluminum slab top, 1" thick, 12" diameter, for larger jobs. Click here for current listings.

                        Kurt vise. Kurt vise. Kurt vise.

                        ...extra length between the quill and the table , 26" vs 18"...
                        I have yet to run out of room, even with the 9" Troyke mounted. I'd go with the Rong Fu that Kevin suggested & extend the column (if you find that you need to). That's a super-easy lathe job, turn down solid round stock to match the column OD, turn a spigot that's a medium press fit on the column ID, freeze the extension, warm the column, drive it in.

                        One thing to consider is adding a VFD for fine speed control. This is in my plans, but haven't done this yet.

                        Be sure to get at least the 2-axis DRO installed on the m-d when you buy it. The third axis is optional, I don't have it & haven't missed it. It would be nice if it doesn't cost much more.

                        Have fun
                        Barry Milton
                        ____________________

                        HTP Invertig 201
                        HTP MIG2400

                        Miller Trailblazer 302, Spoolmatic 30A, Suitcase 12RC
                        Clarke Hotshot

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Barry,
                          Great write-up...and I agree with most of it. Matter of fact, I might even agree with all of it. the only potential problem was the installation of a VFD for finer control of speed on the mill. Are those mill/drills 3-phase or are they offering VFDs in 1 in 3 out, 3 in 3 out AND 1 in 1 out...with emphasis on the last option as far as the available phase preference?
                          Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                          Miller DialArc 250
                          Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                          Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                          Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                          Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                          South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                          Logan 7" shaper
                          Ellis 3000 band saw
                          Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                          Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                          3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                          Lots of dust bunnies
                          Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by precisionworks View Post
                            Kurt vise. Kurt vise. Kurt vise.

                            I have yet to run out of room, even with the 9" Troyke mounted. I'd go with the Rong Fu that Kevin suggested & extend the column (if you find that you need to). That's a super-easy lathe job, turn down solid round stock to match the column OD, turn a spigot that's a medium press fit on the column ID, freeze the extension, warm the column, drive it in.

                            Have fun
                            I defiantly will get the Kurt vice, I was a little curios about the size though. Seemed odd that the 4" is so much more expensive than the 6".

                            Is there anything in particular that you don't like about the Jet, or is it just a matter of what you get for the money?
                            After forking out this much money, a little more for better quality seems OK to me, but I have no Idea of the quality of Rong-Fu or Enco. From what I've heard, Jet is supposed to be pretty decent.

                            I'm going to go out to the shop and take some pictures of what I work with now. You guy's will crack up.
                            To all who contribute to this board.
                            My sincere thanks , Pete.

                            Pureox OA
                            Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                            Miller Syncrowave 250
                            Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pete,
                              The reason that the 4" Kurt vises are so much more than the 6" versions is related to the lower manufacturing cost...over time...of the 6" units. Since the 4" models are not the industry standard and sell at a slower rate than the 6" models they take longer to pay back the manufacturer's tooling, casting, whatever expenses. Rather than lower the price to a comparable level and wait around for a profit Kurt has decided to recoup its expenditures at an accelerated rate. Standard business practice, if you will.

                              As far as the differences between the Enco and Rung-Fu mill/drills and the Jet goes, there may be none. There may also be substantial differences. Many, and I don't know if the Jet units falls into this category, machine tools sourced from either Taiwan or China are nearly identical to each other. My 14 x 40 Jet lathe is close kin to the Grizzly model with only very subtle differences...paint and a jimcrack here and there. Take the time to delve into the manufacturer's parts manuals on-line and see what you are getting for your money. the only reason I purchased the Jet was because it was available locally and I didn't have to pay shipping...which more or less made the difference in price a non-issue. The expense of a mill/drill is a substantial investment...take the time to get the best machine for the money. After that, happy chips!!!
                              Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
                              Miller DialArc 250
                              Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
                              Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
                              Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
                              Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
                              South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
                              Logan 7" shaper
                              Ellis 3000 band saw
                              Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
                              Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
                              3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
                              Lots of dust bunnies
                              Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

                              Comment

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