Big Blue Air Pack

[Sberry]

If you are running 24 hr production there is no getting it back either, you cant run 25 hrs to make up for downtime.

[Finney]

Only one fellow around here had AirPac's. he had a contract with Peaybody Coal for years to rebuild drag line bucket's, loader bucket's and dozer blades. When coal was king he had crews running around the clock. As soon as they would finish one bucket they would change it out with the one on the machine and he would start on the one they pulled off. I helped him one winter for a while when I was laid off. I drove up on the job I saw welders taping up their leather sleaves with duct tape, I thought what kind of fools have I hooked up with. Didn't take long to figure that out. I can't remember what size innershield they were running but I have never before or after layed down so much iron. I got my first taste of air arc, didn't take long to get enough of that.
Enough of the war stories, if you have a need for that size machine they do run good.

[Sberry]

I can see a place for them, where the manpower and other equipment, infrastructure, etc are so expensive that the machine costs are a minimal factor compared to other things. Right time and place the 20K would be irrelevent, or constant movement, all in one machine, weld, gouge and weld. Even run a big air grinder if you had to, needle scalers. Ideal for building big tanks or water towers.

[JTMcC]

I see the point you were trying to make, but I tend to give people a little more credit for knowing their work, and what type or class of machine is normally used in that work.

I didn't see anything about him being young, or just starting out but maybe you know more about him than I do from other posts.

An Airpak doesn't have to cost 20 grand, I know a guy that took one on trade for a $500 repair bill on a loader.

JTMcC.

[Portable Welder]

I'll agree there may be companies that need that much power, What I was reffering to is that I see guys doing basically the same work I do running around with a $20,000.00 air pac.
I also see big commercial companies using the air packs and all they do is arc weld with them.
I'll bet 85% of the companies out there that are running the air packs never run them harder than the set up I recommended.
I was just trying to keep a young guy thats going into business from spending $ 20,000.00 on a set up he doesnt need.
Many guys going into business think that the most expensive is gotta be the best.
If I worked in a quarry every day or at the salt mine I may consider it but I dont and havent come across anything that a Trail blazer couldnt do.

In fact I'm seeing more and more Trail blazers sitting next to bridges that are being rebuilt.

[calweld]

Oh, I'm not disputing the fact that there is a need, and from what you've said about your friend in the past it sounds like it works very well for him. Me, I still find myself building gates on occasion ( I know, apparently there's those who look down on that judging by another thread here ) and the airpak or equivalent would probably be a little overkill. Of course, even the Commander 500s are a little overkill for gate building

[JTMcC]

Granted, but your friend is in a little different class than the rest of us. Myself, being an owner/operator, it's all I can do to run one machine, plus many times I'm just running the compressor by itself, I'd rather wear out a $2000 compressor than a $18,000 welder/compressor . . . I know, that's really not a fair comparision . . but still, my $2000 Champion will likely last 10 years, if and when it wears out I can replace or rebuild it, and probably still be money ahead.

Why is that? he's an owner operator, with one employee.
Like you said, not a fair comparison as he can't get by with one $2000 compressor and the weight difference between the Vantage 500 and the Airvantage 500 is nothing compared to a large air compressor (or two). Plus, like most people I know , his truck is at max weight as it is (around 33,000 lbs if I remember right. He pulls a trailer with anothwet 12,000 lbs. of line boring equipment.
Point is, there is a place for the AirVantage (or AirPak), maybe not for you, or me, but the need is there.

JTMcC.

[calweld]

Granted, but your friend is in a little different class than the rest of us. Myself, being an owner/operator, it's all I can do to run one machine, plus many times I'm just running the compressor by itself, I'd rather wear out a $2000 compressor than a $18,000 welder/compressor . . . I know, that's really not a fair comparision . . but still, my $2000 Champion will likely last 10 years, if and when it wears out I can replace or rebuild it, and probably still be money ahead.

[JTMcC]

Rather than compare the Airpaks to a 300 amp TB, it would be better to compare the Airpak or AirVantage to the equivalent Big Blue 500 or the Vantage 500, and see how much you can get the equivalent compressed air for separately. Personally, I think you can get all the air you need for $2000, why spend the $8000 - $10,000 premium for an all-in-one package, which in the past anyway has developed a reputation as a high-maintenance item.

As far as the 120 volt MIGS, they are good as gap fillers . . . just stuff it in the gap and cap over it

I asked my friend about this and his reply was that the price difference for him, between a Vantage 500 and an AirVantage 500 was right around $6000. Plus, you really can't buy all the air he needs for $2000. They run both 500 amp machines air arcing with the one air supply and that would take two stand alone compressors. Plus as he says he doesn't have the footprint or the weight capacity to carry that much air compressor and this is on a Peterbilt. He also mentioned one (or two) less engine(s) to fuel, maintain and start on cold mornings. I haven't heard of any reliability problems on the AirVantages. They use, I believe, the Vmac screw compressor which has a pretty good reputation. I know Pile Drivers who run them on their welding rigs (powered by the truck engine) and those things will run flat out all day every day.
I know the old Airpaks had some reliability problems but the new ones are a different system and I'm not sure how they are holding up.
A few factors to consider.

JTMcC.

[Sberry]

4/0 lead is right, big long pieces, all a guy could do to handle a piece. Everything they had was giant size.

[Sberry]

American Bridge had 6 paks of 600A machines.

[Rvannatta]

Rather than compare the Airpaks to a 300 amp TB, it would be better to compare the Airpak or AirVantage to the equivalent Big Blue 500 or the Vantage 500, and see how much you can get the equivalent compressed air for separately. Personally, I think you can get all the air you need for $2000, why spend the $8000 - $10,000 premium for an all-in-one package, which in the past anyway has developed a reputation as a high-maintenance item.

As far as the 120 volt MIGS, they are good as gap fillers . . . just stuff it in the gap and cap over it

Sort of why we put an electric compressor on our Vantage. Saved $10k and we already had the compressor, but I think the Vantage folks are putting a screw compressor on the engine accessory drive which I wouldn't expect to have reliability problems.

[johnny_waz]

Enough of this blasphemy ! If you boys will follow this link, in just 30-minutes of reading you will be convinced there is no need for anything bigger than a 120-volt Mig!

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/index.php?

He he he.....

[Rvannatta]

I see what you mean, this cyber welding gets better ever day

quite agreed, there is a place for big welders, as well as small welders and even intermediate ones--- which is what I bought, and not just because I had more money than sense.

Logging is not as welder intense as the rock quarries and mines, but at least one logging company near here has a miller airpak behind thecab on their
main service truck. (and a bobcat on their small service truck).

Folks beside the railroads do have uses for them.

[calweld]

Rather than compare the Airpaks to a 300 amp TB, it would be better to compare the Airpak or AirVantage to the equivalent Big Blue 500 or the Vantage 500, and see how much you can get the equivalent compressed air for separately. Personally, I think you can get all the air you need for $2000, why spend the $8000 - $10,000 premium for an all-in-one package, which in the past anyway has developed a reputation as a high-maintenance item.

As far as the 120 volt MIGS, they are good as gap fillers . . . just stuff it in the gap and cap over it