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tig, air bubles in inside corner weld

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  • #16
    .030 stainless - shed 80 aluminum, we dont change the gas settings ever, it stays at 30-35 no matter what

    im gonna add, welding through millscale probably wont pass an x-ray, but non critical it shure can be done, **** if you know what your doing you can even tig weld over a mig bead laiden with porosity (definatly only cosmetic, definatly not a strong weld)

    if you have only ever had to weld nice clean stainless, or clean aluminum mabye you would have troubles, but i have done it and i have seen it done MANY times (obviously non critical applications)
    mm210
    maxstar 150

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    • #17
      Here is how it went in just the first tacks of non ground hot rolled I saw air bubbles . It welded but very unclean with undercut on the edges tried it with argon and 15 cfh and 35 cfh for the rest of weld didnt make a difference . now the same pieces of material this time cleaned welded up real nice puddle control wasnt an issue and was able to make a nice porosity free weld. will post pics shortly sent the wife out to get the camera that the kid has. If your going to post info about on how to do something make sure you post the right info or keep your comments and thoughts to yourself we are hear to learn and one bit of bad info from anyone obviously not knowing anything should not post. pics in the next little while or tomorrow sorry thought camera was in the house .
      Miller aerowave full feature
      Lincoln power mig 300 with prince gun
      dynasty 200 dx
      lincoln sp 135 plus
      302 trailblazer
      s22p12
      powcon starcut
      cp 400 metal spray

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      • #18
        yep dont know anything never touched a torch in my life
        mm210
        maxstar 150

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        • #19
          here is a cpl pics proof is in the pics.
          Attached Files
          Miller aerowave full feature
          Lincoln power mig 300 with prince gun
          dynasty 200 dx
          lincoln sp 135 plus
          302 trailblazer
          s22p12
          powcon starcut
          cp 400 metal spray

          Comment


          • #20
            think these pics might be better.
            Attached Files
            Miller aerowave full feature
            Lincoln power mig 300 with prince gun
            dynasty 200 dx
            lincoln sp 135 plus
            302 trailblazer
            s22p12
            powcon starcut
            cp 400 metal spray

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by phaxtris View Post
              .030 stainless - shed 80 aluminum, we dont change the gas settings ever, it stays at 30-35 no matter what

              im gonna add, welding through millscale probably wont pass an x-ray, but non critical it shure can be done, **** if you know what your doing you can even tig weld over a mig bead laiden with porosity (definatly only cosmetic, definatly not a strong weld)

              if you have only ever had to weld nice clean stainless, or clean aluminum mabye you would have troubles, but i have done it and i have seen it done MANY times (obviously non critical applications)
              Just today I used my GTAW torch to "clean" up a mess that another guy called a weld full of non fusion porosity and trapped FCAW slag Messed up my tungsten but the part looked welded.


              TJ
              TJ______________________________________

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              • #22
                Originally posted by dandimand View Post
                If your going to post info about on how to do something make sure you post the right info or keep your comments and thoughts to yourself we are hear to learn and one bit of bad info from anyone obviously not knowing anything should not post.
                I think that is a bit harsh DANDIMAND You proved PHAXTRIS point it did in fact weld. He did not give bad info It may have not been to your standards but what he said was true. As to the gas I have found that in a still area 10cfh is fine and that it takes well over 30cfh to create some kind of vortex atmosphere contamination. In addition I see no connection between cfh of a shielding for GTAW and the quality of the ie penetration non fusion tie in at the toe etc. You either have a shielding envelope or you don't IMNHO.

                TJ
                TJ______________________________________

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                • #23
                  i am going to prove to you that you can weld through mill scale, i decided to show you that it is possible to make an acceptable bead for a non critical application

                  sorry if things are a little shaky, its cold in my garage, and im not going to turn the heat on for a 30 second weld

                  weld progression is from right to left, breaker blew so i figured that was enough, this picture sucks, but there is no porosity, the only weld defect is that its a little low on the filler
                  Attached Files
                  mm210
                  maxstar 150

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by dandimand View Post
                    here is a cpl pics proof is in the pics.

                    I'm only posting to say, that second t-joint pic is how I hope to eventually GTAW. Looks great.

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                    • #25
                      my roomate has a better camera and decided he would take a close up, after wire brush action, visual differnace between millscale and no is very little (in person its even all the same color), hopefully this will prove to you guys that welding mill scale is no big deal

                      ok, definatly not my best weld, but its cold outside, thats my excuse and im stickin to it!
                      Attached Files
                      mm210
                      maxstar 150

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Welding over mill scale can be done with any process, but it is a poor procedure for achieving a quality weld. Sometimes good looking welds are not good welds. As for too much gas flow pulling in atmospheric contamination there are many variables: cup size, tungsten size, torch angle, welding atmosphere-just to name a few.

                        I use 45-60CFH with UHP helium with a #4 cup and a 1/16" ceriated tungsten electrode for welding 3/4" aluminum on DC at 180 amps. That is not typical for most applications. However, in this example the gas flow is very high by comparison without drawing in contamination from the surrounding atmosphere.

                        Many beginning welders read this forum for help and quality information. Don't feed them trash. It only inhibits their ability to learn and clutters a good forum.

                        Engloid-still in my area?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by phaxtris View Post
                          you guys can disagree with me all day, but 10cfh is not to much gas, and you can infact weld over millscale
                          That's the problem...welding OVER millscale. How can you pass an xray when you have all that garbage in the weld?

                          I think the difference here is that you are saying it CAN be done. Yes, it can be done. Is it a good practice that will produce sound and solid welds on a consistent bases? No, it won't. Maybe you're building trailers or small things for personal use, and it doesn't matter a lot with your product. I'v done stuff for submarines, aircraft carriers and other stuff where they xrayed the work.

                          Originally posted by phaxtris View Post
                          and the venturi effect is a wifes tale, there are 16 tig machines where i am, every one is at 30-35cfh, with no porosity issues
                          You have not proven it's a wifes tale. The venturi effect can often have a lot to do with various angles and weld joint configuations...and even small gusts of air. 3mph is enough that it can cause problems when you weld at 10cfh. You can get that when somebody walks by you.

                          Personally, I never weld under 10cfh. Why? Well, at 10cfh I have no margin of error. I have no insurance. I also will typically not shield the tungsten well to keep it clean, and won't get nice color of stainless welds. For me, I'd rather waste a little bit of gas than take the chance of not putting down a good weld the FIRST time. I cannot take that risk with many things I weld. For example, if you're welding on a $40,000 vacuum turbo housing, you don't need to worry about using $10 in argon.


                          As mentioned, the millscale is very bad for promoting undercut. To avoid it, takes a lot of care...and time. If you clean the scale off first, the weld will lay right into the sides without the pausing at each move.

                          Originally posted by HAWK View Post
                          Engloid-still in my area?
                          I rectum...haven't moved in a while.
                          Aren't you somewhere up off 75?

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                          • #28
                            never

                            Originally posted by phaxtris View Post
                            .030 stainless - shed 80 aluminum, we dont change the gas settings ever, it stays at 30-35 no matter what

                            im gonna add, welding through millscale probably wont pass an x-ray, but non critical it shure can be done, **** if you know what your doing you can even tig weld over a mig bead laiden with porosity (definatly only cosmetic, definatly not a strong weld)

                            if you have only ever had to weld nice clean stainless, or clean aluminum mabye you would have troubles, but i have done it and i have seen it done MANY times (obviously non critical applications)
                            I never said it can't be done I said the guy is having problems and to eliminate the variables. Cranking up the gas is not a solution it's a fix that may or may not work. Once a guy /gal develops some skill the he can try stuff like that .Welding can and is frustrating at times so instead of giving him a band aid why not give him good prep practices that will ensure a good weld every time. Tig is not a process that is supposed to be done fast it's supposed to be very precise. Would you feel good about welding a roll cage or race car frame ,have it go down the track and fall apart because you were to lazy to grind off some mill scale? Something to think about. Jef

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                            • #29
                              argon

                              Originally posted by phaxtris View Post
                              you guys can disagree with me all day, but 10cfh is not to much gas, and you can infact weld over millscale

                              and the venturi effect is a wifes tale, there are 16 tig machines where i am, every one is at 30-35cfh, with no porosity issues
                              That's no big deal if your useing a large gas lens. Maybe your flow meters are not calibrated properly who knows. The venturi effect is not an old wives tale. try welding pipe and pointing the torch at you at about 5 o'clock and you'll relize it's real. I welded some 30" titainium pipe for dow and just the breeze from the fork lift caused porosity (the fan ) So if your just building cd racks and weiner sticks for wal-mart I guess all this dosen't matter. Jef

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                              • #30
                                Gentlemen, thank you for all the input. you are correct, I have very little tig experience. my welds do not yet look like the pictures posted. thats why I didn't post them... the part I am making is to replace the axle holder on a cut off / bank saw that was thrown in on the small lathe I picked up last summer. Chinese special. when I lifted the saw to move it the metal holding the axle bent, thus time to make a new bracket. Not a critical weld, but, the inside weld looks like crap and its not right.

                                the examples posted were all rt angle welds. What i am doing is a corner weld. Not sure if I am holding the torch at the right angle etc. I did extend the tungston out without increasing the argon. didn't think of it. after looking at the pictures I did have some fod on the outside weld as well. my problem is definitly a bad prep problem compounded by not enough argon. Not sure if the corner is causing ventury problems. switching to smaller filler material and higher heat did help reduce bubbles. I painted the part last night before I posted asking for help, pictures not an option.

                                after breakfast will cut some material and do some test welds. I'll give you pro's a chuckle, will post pictures of my results.

                                thank you for all opinions, this is very helpful.

                                have done some racing, and from a sleeping in my own bed standpoint am on the quality first program. nothing good comes when a part fails under stress.

                                It is really interesting to hear what settings people use to weld and how they make it work for them. am also on the whatever works program.

                                And, thank you for going through the effort to weld up examples and post them. It is appreciated.

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