Help perfecting tig bead.

[drewworm]

Could some of our more seasoned TIG welders give me some pointers? I know guys are always asking for bead critique. While I don't have pictures of any of my welds, I have some hours under my belt and feel I MIG and TIG well. My TIG beads however, usually look like MIG beads. I want to achieve a nice defined and evenly spaced stack of dimes and can't figure it out. I pretty much keep constant voltage with the foot pedal. Am I supposed to let off some between dabs of filler? I know the consistency that I see in Engloids pics takes years of practice, but I gotta get the dimes going at some point. I feel I'm missing some little secret that when I'm finally enlightened will be like "Oh man, that was easy". It's like I'm that close. What's missing? Am I rushing the welds?
If it matters:
Sync 250
Mild steel plate, tubing, and angle iron
Settings, filler, tungsten all chosen according to published TIG calculator.
Thanks

[drewworm]

Guess, I forgot to clarify that my MIG beads (MM251) are usually pretty smooth in appearance.

[tigman250]

Could some of our more seasoned TIG welders give me some pointers? I know guys are always asking for bead critique. While I don't have pictures of any of my welds, I have some hours under my belt and feel I MIG and TIG well. My TIG beads however, usually look like MIG beads. I want to achieve a nice defined and evenly spaced stack of dimes and can't figure it out. I pretty much keep constant voltage with the foot pedal. Am I supposed to let off some between dabs of filler? I know the consistency that I see in Engloids pics takes years of practice, but I gotta get the dimes going at some point. I feel I'm missing some little secret that when I'm finally enlightened will be like "Oh man, that was easy". It's like I'm that close. What's missing? Am I rushing the welds?
If it matters:
Sync 250
Mild steel plate, tubing, and angle iron
Settings, filler, tungsten all chosen according to published TIG calculator.
Thanks

well, i don't know if i am seasoned enough but i will take a stab at your question.

bead definition comes mainly from the interuption of filler metal, amount of filler and distance you move ahead between dabs. keep your heat constant and pause while adding filler, then move ahead and do over again. the ammount you move ahead is decided by how big of a bead you want and how much definition you want. make sure you are working with CLEAN metal too if you are trying to weld through scale or rust you will not be able to achieve any concistancy at all.

[LightningStruck]

Just the thread I need! When you're saying "moving ahead" do you "dab" as you go, basically moving the puddle in a linear motion? Or do you form the puddle, dab, jump forward, dab, repeat?

I'm trying to get the hang of aluminum, and I'm having the same results as listed above, a MIGish looking weld(but a good one!) I'm not making any real "abrupt" movements with the torch.

[drewworm]

I'm thinking I rush and don't take my time putting the proper dabs. I will try your advice and at the same time concentrate on slowing the process down.
Thanks

[LightningStruck]

The Miller TIG calc usually suggests about 10-12" per minute... I don't know about you, but I tend to go alittle quicker than that as well! Once I get that puddle run'n I just try to keep up without modulating the pedal enough...

It sure is fun learning something new though!

[Engloid]

bead definition comes mainly from the interuption of filler metal, amount of filler and distance you move ahead between dabs. keep your heat constant and pause while adding filler, then move ahead and do over again. the ammount you move ahead is decided by how big of a bead you want and how much definition you want.

I like that answer... you also get definition through the amount of metal you put in each time you deposit metal.

[FM117]

Don't want to hijack your thread but I kinda like smooth beads.
I know it runs against today's style but I just don't like the
present trend toward wide almost exagerated spacing.
Nobody has ever been able to say it makes a better weld
doing it that way, I think they are actually not as sound
in highly stressed joints.
I guess I'm out of style.....
Dave P.
Edit.....that, and people are always trying to make mig beads look like tig.....

[drewworm]

Tigman...Engloid...I've already seen some of your other posts and I value/trust your advice greatly. (Great pics by the way Engloid....hard to believe a person made those welds)
Just for my clarification...do I move the torch back a bit, away from the puddle before dipping filler? OR, does the torch stay put over the melten metal AS I add filler?Sometimes filler "sticks" to the puddle or too much filler goes in, so my puddle is too cold/hot. My thoughts were to keep the end of the filler close to the heat right near the torch thinking it would add easier...once in a blue moon I get a little too close and ruin the tungsten. I know the word is "practice" or "time".
The filler part is just confusing me.
Thanks for taking time to help all of us.

[drewworm]

FM 117...I don't consider it hijacking, really. Chime in. I would just like to have the control that it takes to make the beads the way I want. Right now, the beads are boss. Even my smooth looking beads need some help in the consistency department.

[Engloid]

Tigman...Engloid...I've already seen some of your other posts and I value/trust your advice greatly. (Great pics by the way Engloid....hard to believe a person made those welds)

Thanks... A lot of it is having the right setup and equiment to do what is needed each individual day. Besides, I don't take pictures of the ugly ones, but I promise you that I've made more than a few in my life.

Just for my clarification...do I move the torch back a bit, away from the puddle before dipping filler? OR, does the torch stay put over the melten metal AS I add filler?

I choose answer B above. Only back up if the height of the puddle becomes too close to the tungsten.

Sometimes filler "sticks" to the puddle or too much filler goes in, so my puddle is too cold/hot.

If it sticks, you may be too cold. Adding too much is just a problem with jamming too much wire in with your other hand.

My thoughts were to keep the end of the filler close to the heat right near the torch thinking it would add easier...

With stainless, you definitely want to keep it close, as when it gets out of the argon shield, it will become contaminated. On things like aluminum, pulling away further gives the wire time to cool. THis helps to improve ripple definition at times.

[drewworm]

Thanks Engloid.
That was pretty much what I needed. I'll be churning that through my head all day as I wait for the chance to go to my shop tonight and play.
Thanks again.

[drewworm]

Still churning! I was thinking about what FM117 said with a smooth bead possibly being stronger in high stress joints. FM117 raises a good point. Sometimes I like to exaggerate to make a point - if you were to jump too far ahead you would really just have a "stitch" weld or a bunch of spot welds without complete fusion. I'm not doubting Tigman or Engloid at all, just wondering how far you can move ahead and still have proper fusion while getting the pretty weld. I'm sure the answer is going to be that the puddle will tell you how far. I just haven't invested enough time to really understand what the puddle is telling me.
The first TIG welder I ever watched put down dimes like he was pulling 'em out of a roll as we talked. This was on aluminum. I still have the part on my racecar and for me, anyway, his weld is the definition of TIG welding. It really is a beautiful piece and anyone who looks at the part (cooling manifold) asks me about it. I really want to be able to say, "yeah, I did that".

[Engloid]

Still churning! I was thinking about what FM117 said with a smooth bead possibly being stronger in high stress joints. FM117 raises a good point. Sometimes I like to exaggerate to make a point - if you were to jump too far ahead you would really just have a "stitch" weld or a bunch of spot welds without complete fusion. I'm not doubting Tigman or Engloid at all, just wondering how far you can move ahead and still have proper fusion while getting the pretty weld. I'm sure the answer is going to be that the puddle will tell you how far. I just haven't invested enough time to really understand what the puddle is telling me.

I think that maybe you misunderstood what he's saying (or maybe I did).

The pic below is a good example of the different styles:

Notice the weld on the left, where the bead is smooth and without ripples. His point is that the ripples (like the weld on the right) can be points of increased stress, that are merely put there for appearance.

Although the logic theory says that's true, realistic practice tells us that it's splitting hairs. It's like how the theory is that a perfect weld is flush on each side...yet we know that the common practice is a little external reinforcement, and that this small amount isn't going to create any problems.

[tigman250]

Just for my clarification...do I move the torch back a bit, away from the puddle before dipping filler? OR, does the torch stay put over the melten metal AS I add filler?


I know the word is "practice" or "time".

drew, i rarely ever move backward. make your move ahead, add filler (keeping the torch in place while dipping filler) and move ahead again.

I would just like to have the control that it takes to make the beads the way I want. Right now, the beads are boss. Even my smooth looking beads need some help in the consistency department.

concistancy comes from time as you stated above. for great looking beads you have to be comfortable, if possible position your work to make it as comfortable as you can. your moves have to be almost robotic, moving ahead, adding filler, heat imput all has to be the same from the beginning of the bead to the end. you must stay in the center of the joint for them to look good also, your nickles can be perfectly the same size but if they wander back and forth it ruins the look of the weld too.

http://www.millermotorsports.com/mbo...ead.php?t=7113
check out the welds in this thread, in the second pic the vert weld looks terrible just because i didn't take the time to set it up right i had my hands hovering 18" above the bench when i did the corners. the long horizontals i did on the bench using a hand rest for my torch hand so they turned out better.