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How long does it take a guy to do something?

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  • How long does it take a guy to do something?

    I have a buddy. This is his car, not mine. He's at a point where he wants it painted. Taken apart and painted. Now, far be it for me to suggest what one man can do in a day? He's been quote 500 hours. Five Hundred Hours. Is that crazy or what?
    Last edited by Noel; 11-21-2018, 06:02 PM.

  • #2
    I think someone left out a decimal point.

    Comment


    • #3
      If they are going to completely dismantle it, prep inside and out, multiple coats of paint, reassemble. I could see it taking that long or longer. I've heard of MG paint jobs here at over $10k. It's all more than I can afford but if you want that level of finish it'll cost you.

      ---Meltedmetal
      ---Meltedmetal

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      • #4
        If you look at a collision flat rate book, allotment for time is broken down for re and re, refinishing with allowance for minor variances. So, as I pointed out to my friend when he lamented the estimated hours, some one in a modern well equipped facility, should be able to perform a task in a given amount of time.
        If I buy a new hood for my Chevy truck, I want it painted blue, it should take X hours to remove and replace, x hours to sand and refinish.
        Now I'm not going to say you couldn't spend a week sanding a hood by hand, you could. But they make power tools for a reason, and Gm says the refinishing time isn't a week, it's under a day.
        500 hours...that's one man's labor for 62.5 days. Or the labor of two men for 31.25 days.

        Now if you do the math, which I keep mentioning I'm not very good at, I broke it down like this...
        1- body shell
        2 -doors
        4- fenders
        1-Hood
        1-Trunk lid
        2- front Inner fenders
        2- side panels
        Grill, dash and window trim.
        Frame

        I'm going to be generous with my hours. Car looks pretty good. Not perfect, but pretty darn good. Clean for sure.
        As well, in the middle of 2 similar cars being built, you can or should account for the economy of scale when doing such work. Your not painting one part watching the paint dry, your squirting part after part, product after product with in flash times.

        Disassemble accounting for bagging and tagging parts, 36 hours.
        Refinish body, 36 hours
        Refinish 2 doors 14 hours
        Refinish 4 fenders, 40 hours
        Refinish 1 hood, 8 hours
        Refinish 1 trunk lid 8 hours
        Refinish 2 front inner, 8 hours
        Refinish 2 side panels, 10 hours
        Grill dash and window trim 12 hours
        Frame 10 hours.

        Misc. assemble 24 hours. Those times above account for removal and replacement.

        That's 296 hours. I think I'm being generous far above the flat rate refinishing time, and 200 hour below the estimated time. 8 hour days.
        I should mention, the cost of paint product and shop materials was an extra $5000.
        So...the moral of the story is, if that extra 200 hours is $85 and hour, what could you do with $17000.00?


        Adding my personal opinion to it all, I reached a point I need to spray out 6 fenders. Epoxy primer, my supplied product. I made some calls after which I came to the conclusion I was doing it myself after all.
        It was, "well I charge $300 a fender". I said fine, but I'm not bringing you one fender I'm bringing 6? " Well I charge $300 a fender". WTF? Where has the expectation grown that everyone thinks they are worth $1000 a day?

        You guys ever spray paint anything? It takes more time to mix product then it does to spray a fender? You lay them out, start at one end and by the time you reached the 6th the first is ready for recoat.

        One thing for sure, if your not doing it your self, or someone isn't paying stupid amounts of money to do it for them, it isn't getting done. But I know what 8 hours of steady will accomplish in a day.

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        • #5
          My buddy paid $16,000.00 to have his '57 painted. I know guys who charge $700-$800 to paint sewing machines. And Noel that green paint looks good. I painted for almost 10 years of course I had to weld it up first, I do know..Bob
          Bob Wright

          Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
          http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Bob, your kind comments about the green Endura Epoxy Primer are appreciated. Seems it's a popular color at my house?
            I never fancied myself a green car owner, but a gal of A and a gallon of B goes a long way. Without choosing a different product, my other option was red. Green however covered a lot of parts.
            I don't call myself a painter. But I dabble. And with my projects,limited money buys a lot to dabble with.

            Posting those fenders was to suggest I have an idea on how long it might take to at least spray them with a coating of product. Not long.
            4 prepped fenders on saw horses. Mix product to gun cleaned and put away 4 hours.
            Now, If I was set up too switch products easily, productively...recoat is 20 minutes to an hour...I won't be doing the extra sanding I'm now facing with cured product surface. I'm estimating from what it took to scuff a fiber glass set, 2 hours a fender.

            I didn't mention those hours equating out to an estimate of $40k. $16,000.00 on the 57 was a deal it seems.

            Pictures are always good. I should start a thread, what's in your basement? And my buddy...he's still getting estimates.

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            • #7
              Here is a pic of my buddies '57 which was on last years Summit Racing Calendar. The '64 Fairlane project in the middle is mine and I have had it for 29 years. It just sits in the garage. The sewing machine is what an $800 paint job looks like on them....Bob
              Bob Wright

              Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
              http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

              Comment


              • #8
                I wouldn't be disappointed having spent the money on the 57. That is a beautiful car. Stuff big dreams of one day are made of. Mine anyways. Time will tell?

                One day I'm sure the 64 will look that pretty as well with some effort although I think it looks pretty now. I've kind of got a thing for old cars and old paint. The patina look, I like the trend. Building cars is like learning to weld, takes practice.
                On the bright side maybe, mine has sat since 75. Slow progress. We can say however we managed to keep them and maybe the dream alive?

                The sewing machine, that's a detailed jewel. Honestly, $800 for that quality of detail and finish was a steal of a deal. What's amazing as well was the level of manufacturing to make it back in the day. I'm not sure the cost to buy one back then, but I remember sewing was a valuable skill to have.
                When they talk about smooth running and timing, clock works and sewing machines.

                Arc sensing and adaptive technology...I see similarities? I can understand why women filling factories to weld during the war year of days gone by wasn't a hard transition. It could also explain why I'm not a big fan of welding simulators? You could buy a lot of sewing machine for that money.

                Thanks for your comments Bob, and the pictures.

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                • #9
                  This was my FR jacket from when I retired 8 years ago from the refinery and it had a tear in the back. So I sewed a patch on it. Yeah its a cheap jacket but I wore it for a few years at work...Bob
                  Bob Wright

                  Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                  http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That's what I'm talking about. Laying stitches. Man...tell me you don't think welding and sewing go together. I think we agreed on a paint analogy. You have to see the movements, step stitch adjustments and welding? Tell me you do?
                    Nice looking Singer. That get a restoration? Judging by the styling, it's got vintage craftsmanship all over it? Old girl looks brand new? I wish you would have mentioned more about it, it's a nice piece of equipment.
                    I have a Singer treadle. Still works. With disappointment I have only used it twice. Results weren't pretty but things held up? I new less then about how things worked or were supposed to?
                    That said, it's a very cool table presently. I was thinking ahead however and purchased machines for both my daughters as they grew up. They took lessons and now they sew. I don't push, but I've told them I'm thinking head liner and door panels? So far I have a denim quilt and some down pillows. #1 Daughter gets the credit. I how ever stuffed the pillows and sewed the ends of the cases by hand. What can I say, I had red thread and lots of it.
                    What I need is the holes patched in the knees of my jeans? I think the kid is waiting till she has enough for another quilt?
                    That jacket. I understand that. My old Derek Services International winter jacket, I wore it to death. The patch however lives on. The feather are now a very comfortable pillow. Tucking...learn something new every day.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Now if the car paint quality was to be on the level of the sewing machine paint quality. And we are talking inside and out. Inner fender wells, trunk, under hood and everything. Then the price ain't so bad. Especially when you take into account just how much a show quality paint job increases the value.
                      My bids are always the highest of anyone I bid against. That being it's seldom apples vs apples. Maybe the guy is a hack just trying to get rich?
                      When I bid I try to account for the worst case scenarios and still come out as near perfect as possible. Otherwise I simply find other jobs. And by that the reputation of the work speaks for itself. Sure I get haters. Some have started their own biz. I create competition, but by staying at the top of the food chain I can pay my overhead most months. And I haven't been caught up for a very long time.

                      www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                      Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                      MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                      Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                      Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                      Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                      Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                      Miller WC-115-A
                      Miller Spectrum 300
                      Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                      Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

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                      • #12
                        Talking to my buddy last night about it, he's now talking about shipping the car south. A buddy of his avoiding winters has some friends in Arizona who have a hotrod shop on the go and are giving him a favorable number after looking at his pictures. Time will tell?

                        Again, not a professional in the autobody trade, I can appreciate the work involve in a quality refinish/restoration. Looking at that Singer, how baby bottom smooth and detailed it appears, it wouldn't be hard to justify a week of work.

                        The pictures I've attached were poached from another site I visit. I don't think a man should lower his price if he has and wishes to hold the reputation of quality. That said, we kind of expect when we lay the money down to receive it. That Camaro with shiny paint wouldn't have looked to bad, but as discovered, he didn't get what he paid for or maybe he did? He hired a guy who could sculpture filler.

                        I did suggest to my friend he contract up. I think it was a matter of this is what we charge, rather then these are the steps I'm taking and charging you for. That said, I'm a fan of doing it myself. It may take a bit longer, but I know what I have in the end and who to blame for it.
                        Keep a strain on things, and the standard high. Sounds like your reputation for quality has found a supporting market to keep you busy and rightly so.

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                        • #13
                          "I know what I have in the end and who to blame for it"
                          And that, friends, in a nutshell, explains most of the attitude of this forum

                          And those pics are unreal!!

                          www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                          Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                          MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                          Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                          Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                          Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                          Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                          Miller WC-115-A
                          Miller Spectrum 300
                          Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                          Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I showed my daughter a picture of your Singer. Before I did I asked her to guess the age. Her response was "that thing looks brand new! ".

                            A curious mind not being a thing to waste I dug deeper. Holy smokes. I discovered stuff. So, it that a Singer 500, part of the Rocketeers?

                            Credit to ISMACS International.
                            "
                            These machines are dubbed "Rocketeers" because of their distinctive styling. The top of the arm is an oval that has reminded people of something out of science fiction."

                            Thinking out loud...If hand sewing is an AC transformer, back in the day that was a Dynasty.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Noel View Post

                              A curious mind not being a thing to waste I dug deeper. Holy smokes. I discovered stuff. So, it that a Singer 500, part of the Rocketeers?
                              Pretty soon you will be up to 80 machines like me. Yes it is a Singer 503 Rocketeer. The machine is just a reskinned 403. The "Space Race" was going on and Singer took advantage of it and redid a few lines of machines to keep up with the new fad. Sort of like "Streamlining" an old roadster. My oldest is an 1886 and my newest is 1984 which is a modern, (then) computerized Swiss made work of art. And I make parts that you can't buy anymore in my shop. They are like old cars, find them, fix em and sell them.
                              Bob Wright

                              Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                              http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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