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  • Mean_Green
    started a topic Making a Fuel cell.

    Making a Fuel cell.

    i just purchased my new miller 252, it has straight CO2 gas and i use it mainly on steel.

    i am looking into making a fuel cell for my jeep and was questioning making one out of aluminum or steel. i do not have aargon or a spoolgun so aluminum would take me on a ride to get one or borrow some one elses.

    i just want what ever input you guys have. like why steel wont work. i know its heavier. the cell will be a simple rectangle all except the bottom will have a sump. i plan on doin baffles or foam but not sure on which. i know their are some on the market for cheep but i can not find one that fits just right.

    lets hear some advice

  • fun4now
    replied
    cool, looks like a fun project.

    Leave a comment:


  • pro70z28
    replied
    Thanks, point well taken. I see I have lived an insulated life in the road racing world where cells and tanks are cells and tanks.

    JMHO: I think a cell, in drag racing anyway, has an aircraft style filler and a vent that will not leak when upside down, tanks just hold gas but don't meet the upside down requirements.
    You bring up a good point about construction though.... I know a lot of guys that have built their own cell to fit a particular spot in their racecar. I plan to build mine also, since I can't seem to find a factory built unit to fit like I'd like. As far as I know the only thing tech checks is the filler & vent. (correct me if that's wrong). You would think SFI would mandate an approved cell that met certain construction requirements. (FOR ALL RACECARS, NOT JUST THE PROS) The kind of requirements that can only be checked during construction since, once assembled who knows if they are really built/welded correctly to handle a crash. Maybe there haven't been enough home made cells split open in crashes to warrant an SFI fuel cell for all classes?
    Just thinking out loud.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mean_Green
    replied
    ps that was from a mini yota truck doin fourty... as for the bottom.... it will have a minimum 3/16 steel skid it will be FINE. i do not see tabs to mount on my cell... i dont see the chassi splittin it up from the flex... it will be strapped! it is perfectly strong. the baffles act like gussets. drive over and punch it.... if it makes the smallest dent ill redo it

    Leave a comment:


  • Mean_Green
    replied
    [QUOTE=Vicegrip;161772]
    Originally posted by Vicegrip View Post
    Boy, take some time off the welding board and get hammered. I think you are missing the difference between convention and common usage with regards to vernacular. Kind of like Weldor and welder. A welder is a machine and Weldor is the well trained guy using it. Weldor is not all too common outside of the field but it is still proper usage regardless. I guess I am insulated by the conventions and rules incorporated in road racing. Regardless, point on nomenclature used in many racing venues taken.
    i think you were hammered when you wrote that?

    Originally posted by Vicegrip View Post
    This does lead to a problem. Consider this. If an unlined fuel container with no safety foam or other safety increasing devices other than being made of molded plastic can be called a fuel cell what constitutes a fuel cell? Can any container be called a cell or fuel tank interchangeably? Is it defined by the maker? Is there a convention or definition? What is a “fuel cell” then? Anything that holds fuel or a device that incorporates some or many systems, methods and devices to prevent leakage, fire and or explosion?
    go ask wiki

    Originally posted by Vicegrip View Post
    If you feel the need to mount an attack by questioning someone’s education rather than discussing the question at hand please attempt to use 4th grade or better English during as it helps the cause. I used Wiki for one click ease on my part only, there are other examples that reinforce the definition available. I am sure that you can use the same research skills that you have incorporated in your fuel cell design to find them. Please bear in mind that I only posted a recomendation on the use of foam and liners in response to your request for info.
    their was a disclaimer.... look again buddy.... i listened and took all recomendations to the heart. really?

    Leave a comment:


  • Vicegrip
    replied
    Originally posted by pro70z28 View Post
    Not to nit pick but if it does not have a flexable liner it is not a fuel cell

    Not according to NHRA or SFI (Rule book requires a Jazz #220-015-0 fuel cell for pro stock).

    http://www.jazproducts.com/pro_drag_fc.html

    They come with or without foam but no liner.
    Thanks, point well taken. I see I have lived an insulated life in the road racing world where cells and tanks are cells and tanks.


    Originally posted by Mean_Green View Post
    as far as fuel cells needing a liner. tell that to rci, jass, fuel safe and the other companys that all sell tanks that do not contain inner bladders or another flexible liner. they do sell some that do but not all.

    summit racing fuel cells

    tell me how many of the cells have the inner bladder and come back.then write your email to the companys and tell them wiki says they have it all wrong
    Boy, take some time off the welding board and get hammered. I think you are missing the difference between convention and common usage with regards to vernacular. Kind of like Weldor and welder. A welder is a machine and Weldor is the well trained guy using it. Weldor is not all too common outside of the field but it is still proper usage regardless. I guess I am insulated by the conventions and rules incorporated in road racing. Regardless, point on nomenclature used in many racing venues taken.

    This does lead to a problem. Consider this. If an unlined fuel container with no safety foam or other safety increasing devices other than being made of molded plastic can be called a fuel cell what constitutes a fuel cell? Can any container be called a cell or fuel tank interchangeably? Is it defined by the maker? Is there a convention or definition? What is a “fuel cell” then? Anything that holds fuel or a device that incorporates some or many systems, methods and devices to prevent leakage, fire and or explosion?


    1. Post looking for advice on building a fuel cell. 2. Post pictures of an example you planned to copy in function. 3. Proceed to not bother to use any of the methods used in the example or accept any of the recommendations from the people that replied.
    Build a long rectangular flat sided thin wall box with non overlapping 90 deg corners incorporating ground down welds that is to be hung exposed, both inside the drivers compartment as well as externally under a rock crawling jeep and fill with gasoline. No foam, no internal liner, nothing to prevent the tank from flexing and splitting right next to a ground weld area in the HAZ. As the fuel sloshes and vibrates inside the tank it will cause the flat panels to flex like a 1 gallon paint thinner can. Unlike the thinner can which has seamless rounded corners and rolled lapped ends the corners on yours are stress risers. The stock was made from pressed steel for reasons more that economy and ease. The two halves are mated at the equator and the welds are planned so that they are not stress risers. The edges and corners are seamless and rounded.

    Originally posted by Mean_Green View Post
    thanks for the words. not to get out of line but did you go to college? did you take any classes requiring research? then youll know why they dont let you do research on wiki . not bein mean at all. im assumin you have been to college and will know what i mean when the hamster makes the light go on.
    If you feel the need to mount an attack by questioning someone’s education rather than discussing the question at hand please attempt to use 4th grade or better English during as it helps the cause. I used Wiki for one click ease on my part only, there are other examples that reinforce the definition available. I am sure that you can use the same research skills that you have incorporated in your fuel cell design to find them. Please bear in mind that I only posted a recomendation on the use of foam and liners in response to your request for info.
    Last edited by Vicegrip; 10-13-2008, 08:22 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blackbird455
    replied
    I went back and looked, Nice Jeep! Never seen one with the flares off.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mean_Green
    replied
    comin along....

    Leave a comment:


  • Mean_Green
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackbird455 View Post
    Very good point

    Side note:

    I used to work for a guy that had a 3000 gal 100 octane avgas tank.
    It was painted black, and you could see a steady stream of vapors all day long coming from the vent. $$$ just a waistin!! We painted it gloss white, most of the vapor loss went away.
    was the tank exposed to sun? black would deff increase temps then... im not a wiz at that stuff but i get what was happinin... my vent is all vacum sealed to the stock evap canister. only vent to the world is the one on the filler neck. but its only opened when the cap is off for re fuelin... but very good point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blackbird455
    replied
    Originally posted by Mean_Green View Post
    does that heli have a single intank pick up with flat 35" bottom? with that much fuel is it more likly to have enuf to compensate? or does it have a deep sump pick up? or maybe a multi point pick up?
    Very good point

    The reason the helis don't have baffles:

    The tanks are well below the horizontal plane of the CG, meaning its like a water bucket on the end of a rope. As the helis turn, gravity keeps the fuel stuck to the bottom of the tank. BTW, single pick ups. Also the tanks are break-away - collapsible , for crashworthiness.
    I believe that the smaller the tank, in a wheeled vehicle, the baffles are more important, because of sloshing, to ensure constant fuel delivey.
    That lil jeep is going to slosh the heck out of it.

    Side note:

    I used to work for a guy that had a 3000 gal 100 octane avgas tank.
    It was painted black, and you could see a steady stream of vapors all day long coming from the vent. $$$ just a waistin!! We painted it gloss white, most of the vapor loss went away.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mean_Green
    replied
    Originally posted by ace4059 View Post
    be sure to stencil on the back of your tank "Do NOT ram, explosion will result."
    lol i might take you up on that! but in reality it has a 1/4 inchsteel skid and is flush with frame. then in the back their is now 3/16 corner guards from door to tail gate... then a real stinger out DOM in the works with the new bender... it will be fine. def safer then the stock

    Leave a comment:


  • Mean_Green
    replied
    does that heli have a single intank pick up with flat 35" bottom? with that much fuel is it more likly to have enuf to compensate? or does it have a deep sump pick up? or maybe a multi point pick up?

    Leave a comment:


  • Blackbird455
    replied
    Baffled about baffles?

    I have mainly worked on three models of aircraft....
    the UH-60a, OH-58A/C, and the Air Tractor 502-B.....


    The only one of them that had any baffles, was the cropduster in its 500 gallon chemical hopper.

    The OH-58 holds 71.5 gallons and there is not one single baffle.

    The UH-60 holds 360 gallons in two tanks, big enough to crawl in.

    As critical as balance is in a helicopter, and no baffles?

    I am baffled.
    Last edited by Blackbird455; 10-06-2008, 03:27 AM.

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  • ace4059
    replied
    be sure to stencil on the back of your tank "Do NOT ram, explosion will result."

    Leave a comment:


  • Mean_Green
    replied
    stock gas tank
    [IMG][/IMG]

    where it was i meen...
    [IMG][/IMG]

    and where the new one will mount

    Leave a comment:

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