Performance Cryogenics

[Bulldog]

Hey guys,
I was wondering if any of you guys use any of the Cryo company's out there to increase the strength of your gears and things.
The reason that I was wondering is I just sent some gears out of my NV 5600transmission out of my Dodge 3500 dually down to Performance Cryogenics in Mooresville N.C. I have taken out 6th gear a few times and don't see it stopping unless I can get some stronger parts. (Big power + heavy loads = breakage). After talking with Lyle down there I felt pretty comfortable send him the parts.
So how about it any of you motor sports guys sending your parts out to be treated? Did it help?
See ya,
Bulldog

[trstek]

There was one guy that did all the lower units. He made them bullet proof. No one ever asked how.

Rumor was everything was frozen.
Tom

[engnerdan]

Here is another process that might help make your gears last longer, at least reduce wear on them and maybe get you some "slightly" better mileage.

http://www.mikronite.com

I have no personal experience with it but it is suppose to be the cat a$$ for gears.

-Dan

[bilt2spd]

Also look into meta-lax. It's a stress reliever.

[FusionKing]

Hey guys,
I was wondering if any of you guys use any of the Cryo company's out there to increase the strength of your gears and things.
The reason that I was wondering is I just sent some gears out of my NV 5600transmission out of my Dodge 3500 dually down to Performance Cryogenics in Mooresville N.C. I have taken out 6th gear a few times and don't see it stopping unless I can get some stronger parts. (Big power + heavy loads = breakage). After talking with Lyle down there I felt pretty comfortable send him the parts.
So how about it any of you motor sports guys sending your parts out to be treated? Did it help?
See ya,
Bulldog

I used to be a rep for 300 Below and we did a ton of stuff for a bunch of the big name racers. It worked good on many things. Mainly on things with .4 or higher carbon (like 1040,4140 etc...) but worked super on stuff like 1090.
Worked a lot of good on tool on tool steels. You may see some improvement. Hope that sounds encouraging for you. It's been about 10 yrs ago now.

[Bulldog]

Thanks guys,
I had the parts overnighted to Performance Cryogenics they did there deal and overnighted the parts back so hopfully I get the transmision back together today or tomorrow and should have the truck back together and on the road Monday.
I'll report back on how the gears hold up.
see ya,
Bulldog

[Badd00SS]

Well, you cant do it now, but I Had my gears out of my T-56 tremec 6 speed in my Camaro race car Mikronited. And it has held up wonderfully to 550 RWHP and 6200 RPM clutch drops on slicks. Before that the gears would last a year or so.... If It happens again, look into it.

[Bulldog]

I'll take a look at that Bad. My problem is my truck is HEAVY and I haul HEAVY loads with the torque that my truck makes it's not hard to see why I take the teeth off the gears. The NV5600 is a very strong trans but when the torque gets over 1200 ftlbs over drive just can't take it. I'm hoping that this cyro deal works out. I just installed a DD clutch and it wont slip like the South Bend fe was. I should find out pretty soon if the new gears will hold up or not.
See ya,
Bulldog

[StillBoostin]

I understand "cryo," but I think it is a joke. Heat treating is a much better solution to a broken gear problem. I worked for a Subaru Race Shop that is the soul importer of PPG gears from Aussy. Look them up. They are the strongest gears period. We tested all other manufactures in real race cars and they all broke. Only PPG held up to the test. "Cryo" failed just as fast as a stock gear did. I'm sure for other applications "cryo" works great, but not in a manual transmission. This was my bread and butter for many years, so trust me when I say it is all in the metallurgy and heat treating. They make gears for a wide variety of applications. Very expensive, but if you make the power and it holds for run after run after run etc.... then it is worth it.

James

[Bulldog]

Thanks for the reply Boostin,
I don't know if it's a joke or not the way I see it it was worth a try. I know the heat treated gears that I had wasn't going to hold up so I thought that I would give it a try. I know a lot of people use cryo so what the heck. The real solution is to back the power down or stay in direct. I wonder if PPG would even make a gear for a NV5600. I should reach out to them. Do you have a link? It would be interesting to see how they would hold up to some big torque loads. Not that your Subaru didn't test the gears but to say a Subaru has torque well now there's a joke...
see ya
Bulldog

[FusionKing]

I understand "cryo," but I think it is a joke. Heat treating is a much better solution to a broken gear problem. I worked for a Subaru Race Shop that is the soul importer of PPG gears from Aussy. Look them up. They are the strongest gears period. We tested all other manufactures in real race cars and they all broke. Only PPG held up to the test. "Cryo" failed just as fast as a stock gear did. I'm sure for other applications "cryo" works great, but not in a manual transmission. This was my bread and butter for many years, so trust me when I say it is all in the metallurgy and heat treating. They make gears for a wide variety of applications. Very expensive, but if you make the power and it holds for run after run after run etc.... then it is worth it.

James

Cryo IS metallurgy and heat treating.....we did stuff for NASA even....you do not B.S. those guys. They went thru our system with a fine tooth comb. And used an independent contrator to do that as well.
Cryo will only benefit if there is a problem with the process used prior or there is sufficient carbon to react to the process.(on steel)
There are/was many jack-leg people doing cryo when I got involved just like there are many jack-leg welders and mechanics. Not all are bad and I doubt your experience would not have been enuff to say whether it is a joke or not IMO.
It just didn't work on what you tryed with who you used.
There was many things we got phenomenal results on. YMMV

[Aerometalworker]

Yep FK,
Cryogenic treating of certain carbon steels, is only beneficial if there was a property left from the "hot" heat treatment that is the direct cause of the failure. The first thing you have to do is determine the root cause of the failure. Did the crack initiate on the surface, or sub surface? What doesnt the gear pattern check look like? Is it failing at the root of the tooth, or in a contact area? Or even more simply, is the crack from a form of microstructure embrittlement, or on a larger scale forming from a surface defect, even a tiny corrosion pit. Is it failing from sheer mechanical overloading, or high cycle fatigue?

Beware the salesmen, or "engineer" at a company that sells a process, for they will rarely tell you in wont work, or offer a better solution they dont sell.
That goes for any company that sells a process, coating, painting, rust prevention, (cryo) treatment, welding, polish, wax etc. etc. Do your own research and deterline for yourself what process needs to be used.

-Aaron

[StillBoostin]

Yep FK,
Cryogenic treating of certain carbon steels, is only beneficial if there was a property left from the "hot" heat treatment that is the direct cause of the failure. The first thing you have to do is determine the root cause of the failure. Did the crack initiate on the surface, or sub surface? What doesnt the gear pattern check look like? Is it failing at the root of the tooth, or in a contact area? Or even more simply, is the crack from a form of microstructure embrittlement, or on a larger scale forming from a surface defect, even a tiny corrosion pit. Is it failing from sheer mechanical overloading, or high cycle fatigue?

Beware the salesmen, or "engineer" at a company that sells a process, for they will rarely tell you in wont work, or offer a better solution they dont sell.
That goes for any company that sells a process, coating, painting, rust prevention, (cryo) treatment, welding, polish, wax etc. etc. Do your own research and deterline for yourself what process needs to be used.

-Aaron

Great post!



Ask and you shall receive.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/index-html.htm

And for your information Subarus put down 400-800 ft/lbs to all 4 wheels. Not just 2 wheels, there is a lot more shock load to the gear then you think.

Like I said if you read my post Fusion King, It might work on other applications, but differeny metals do not react well will cryo. That is why I said Metallurgy. Every metal is different. PPG uses some exotic metal that is harder then the metal used in you impact socket and uses a special process to heat it and make it stronger.

JAmes

James

[Bulldog]

WOW 400 to 800 ftlbs of torque! That's pretty good. That's in the range of what a stock Cummins puts down... Now how about we double that... Oh by the way what does one of those Subaru's weight? 2-3000 lbs. Hey how about we triple then ad 1000 lbs to that then hook a trailer that weights in at about 25000 pds. Lets see the last time I hit the dyno my truck made 684 hp and 1401 ftlbs of torque on just fuel no juice. (with a slipping clutch)Oh and by the way my truck is a dually and I run 35's. It will break the 4 back tires loose at 40 mph.
I'll call PPG Monday to see what they say.
Can I drop your name??? Maybe I'll get a better deal...
Bulldog

[StillBoostin]

WOW 400 to 800 ftlbs of torque! That's pretty good. That's in the range of what a stock Cummins puts down... Now how about we double that... Oh by the way what does one of those Subaru's weight? 2-3000 lbs. Hey how about we triple then ad 1000 lbs to that then hook a trailer that weights in at about 25000 pds. Lets see the last time I hit the dyno my truck made 684 hp and 1401 ftlbs of torque on just fuel no juice. (with a slipping clutch)Oh and by the way my truck is a dually and I run 35's. It will break the 4 back tires loose at 40 mph.
I'll call PPG Monday to see what they say.
Can I drop your name??? Maybe I'll get a better deal...
Bulldog

I see you are a funny guy and like to pick on foreign cars. I only was trying to give my expert advice. If you call them I'm sure they could educate you on their production process. It doesn't matter what vehicle you have, the process to make the best gear is the same no matter your application. They do make custom one off gears, maybe they could make a set for your truck. I'm a nobody, so I couldn't get you a deal. If the gear wasn't made and designed with cryo in the original process then it isn't going to help.

James